Author Topic: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts  (Read 354 times)

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Offline richtea

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Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« on: October 26, 2019, 05:52:02 pm »
I hate them. These things:





It's a bit obvious really - you're screwing metal into so-so wood, and a little movement over the years they work loose.

I'm no skilled woodworker (but if I was, I'd never use these on something I made), but I need to fix them tight.
My thinking was along the lines of:
1. Fit oversize inserts (real pain to source, and they'll just work loose again, in their own time)
2. Glue inserts back with wood glue (but it's metal into wood, so that isn't going to do a good job)
3. Glue inserts back in with Alradite (but Alradite will only survive if it's rock solid - any movement, and the Alraldite will crack)

I'm tending toward 3 as being the most likely to hold for a few years.
Any thoughts? Maybe one for you, Rae?

Thanks very much....

Online raesewell

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2019, 06:19:10 pm »
Is it just the inset that's damaged or the hole in the timber or both?
What size are the threads?

Offline richtea

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2019, 07:05:45 pm »
Is it just the inset that's damaged or the hole in the timber or both?
What size are the threads?

It's a combi, and I've seen it before on previous beds - the insert has some of its crude thread damaged, and the hole is also damaged.
They drop out fairly easily, but there's enough insert thread to get some grip, but not enough wood left to grip.

Size:
- outer thread is about 10-12mm (it widens towards the exterior end)
- inner thread is 7mm ish

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2019, 07:14:39 pm »
It's the inner thread that determines the size of the insert, which sounds like it's M6. Epoxy mixed with a bit of saw dust should do the job.
I can send you the inserts and the sawdust, you'll have to provide the epoxy  :D

Offline Andym535

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2019, 08:02:23 pm »
Try Gorilla Glue.. the one that comes in a 60ml bottle. It's mixture of expanding foam and cynoacrylate so its gap filling and tough. A bit of water makes it expand like mad, so clamp the thing in and leave it overnight.
If it matters what gear you’re in, the engine’s too small.

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2019, 08:10:12 pm »
Polyurethane glue is another good alternative and I have used it with good results. Shelf life is limited and can be a bit expensive for a little job. On second thoughts it might be better than epoxy and sawdust in this instance.

Get your self some of this Rich
https://www.toolstation.com/gorilla-glue/p94548
or this
https://www.toolstation.com/gorilla-glue/p40510
I have not experience with the one on the small bottle.
I'll send new inserts, I only have M6 so double check.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 08:13:27 pm by raesewell »

Offline richtea

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2019, 08:49:06 pm »
That's v kind, Rae! I'm OK to get some locally, but I didn't actually know what they're called. :-[ :-[ :-[
If somewhere like Screwfix sells them, I'm happy to grab them, and save you the grief, if you give me a hint at the name.

Here's the screw and insert thing. I reckon the inner part of the screw is 6mm, as you suggest:





The insert is pretty short - 13mm? (which can't help it's ability to grip).

Oh, and Gorilla Glue it is, thanks both!

Offline richtea

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2019, 08:57:57 pm »
I was just about to post up the same link  ;D

Offline TomL

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2019, 01:28:13 am »
That appears to be 8mm and not 6mm. The measurement of a thread is taken over the outside of the thread.
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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2019, 09:58:07 am »
It might be best if Rich takes a bolt along with him to get the right size.

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2019, 10:54:51 am »
If you need M8 Rich, I have tried all of my normal suppliers and they all only stock M6. M8 are available on Ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HEX-DRIVE-INSERT-FIXING-TYPE-D-WOOD-SCREW-INSERTS-NUTS-M4-M5-M6-M8-M10-THREADED/323794423090?hash=item4b63a6cd32:m:m_dzvW3u47O5E669hvfBnNg

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2019, 11:44:14 am »
I hate them. These things:

It's a bit obvious really - you're screwing metal into so-so wood, and a little movement over the years they work loose.

I'm no skilled woodworker (but if I was, I'd never use these on something I made), but I need to fix them tight.
My thinking was along the lines of:
1. Fit oversize inserts (real pain to source, and they'll just work loose again, in their own time)
2. Glue inserts back with wood glue (but it's metal into wood, so that isn't going to do a good job)
3. Glue inserts back in with Alradite (but Alradite will only survive if it's rock solid - any movement, and the Alraldite will crack)

I'm tending toward 3 as being the most likely to hold for a few years.
Any thoughts? Maybe one for you, Rae?

Thanks very much....

I can't see what the bolts are supposed to be holding! I've never seen anything as cheap and nasty as that Richard!

All my beds have long bolts which pull sideways on the nut insert which can therefore never come out.

Offline Matt

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2019, 05:01:31 pm »
Bed show-off! :p

But yes, I these things look terrible. Are they used where it's actually holding something together?

Build a new bed from pallets, boom!
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Offline k1200r66

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Re: Even less to do with bikes - Bloody bed bolt inserts
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2019, 05:45:13 pm »
if the wood is wide enough ,get the 20mm insert.
More grip.