Author Topic: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.  (Read 423 times)

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Offline Andym535

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Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« on: October 22, 2019, 10:39:18 am »
I know there are mechanically competent people on here who are old enough to have come across drum brakes, so here goes... I'm looking at the brakes on my wife's horse trailer. It's a pretty basic 4 wheel thing with mechanical over-run drum brakes on all 4 wheels.

The problem I have is that one of the drums appears to have a tight spot. The drum has taper roller bearings on a stub axle. When I tighten the bearings by hand it gets to a point when the drum binds at one point, to the point that you can turn the drum by hand with some effort through the tight spot but it doesn't spin freely as it does for the rest of the revolution.

The bearings seem fine, no noise or anything untoward that I can feel when re-greasing them. The only way I can see to get a tight spot like this on a drum is if the drum is worn unevenly, or the bearing isn't in the centre.

The backing the hub nut off one castellation 1/6th turn is enough to clear it, but then I get the tight spot again when I adjust the brake shoes.

Is there another explanation? Is this a common way that drums wear? Can you get brake drums re-trued in a lathe?
If it matters what gear you’re in, the engine’s too small.

Offline raesewell

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 11:26:54 am »
Can you get brake drums re-trued in a lathe?

In a word, yes

Offline TomL

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 01:45:18 pm »
Make sure that the drum is seated correctly on the flange face. There might be a burr or some crap which is tilting the drum.
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Offline TomK1300s

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 03:47:11 pm »
Make sure the brake shoes are free to move on the back plate, and the hand brake pivot is also free.
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Offline Phmode

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 04:38:51 pm »
Trailer brakes are just about the most forgotten item on the roads today. Out of sight, out of mind!

If you have changed the shoes/linings, were the old ones badly worn or burned? Does the drum show any signs of 'blueing' (from overheating) at any point.

Muck is the worst culprit for getting a shoe stuck 'on' and this can lead to overheating of the drum with consequent warping and hence a tight spot.

Is there any noise associated with the tight spot; metal on metal, metal on 'asbestos'?

Good luck  8)

Offline chriscanning

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 06:09:25 pm »
Shock horror we still have a car with rear drum brakes   ::) with all of the above hassles the easiest solution by some margin is new drums and brake shoes as opposed to getting old drums skimmed and custom brake shoes with thicker linings made.

Offline farmer

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 06:26:26 pm »
as with most things in life you need a bfh ....big sort of hammer. beat the blazes out of it then run a grinder round the inside of the drum, there will usually be a ring of rust and rubbish round the inside of the drum where the shoe does not wear , if that makes sense, this is the bit you want to grind off, leaving a few mm of a taper around the drum interior. that ring causes binding with drum going round and also taking it off the axel, get rid of that and a bit of adjustment on the shoes should sort you out....make sure your adjusters are working properly and drums are centered.
they can be a bit of a bugger if the adjusters are not holding properly, make sure they are locking it place as well as adjusting.

Offline farmer

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 06:29:42 pm »
ah now, we do not really like spending money on cars but we absolutely hate spending it on trailers!!!


Offline Phmode

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 07:28:14 pm »
Shock horror we still have a car with rear drum brakes   ::)

...and, as of 8 this morning, I also have a bike with a rear drum brake. Even more shock horror!

Offline Andym535

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 08:03:48 pm »
Hmmm... As far as I can tell the drum is warped. There's a section that looks a bit blue and swapping the drums between the axles on the same side and the tight spot moves with the drum.

Next problem is getting a new drum. It seems 90% of (horse) trailers use either Knott or Al-Ko brakes. This thing though is 100% french (according the the web site) and uses brakes from a company I've never heard of (Paillard). A 200x50 Knott drum is about £60 and off the shelf at the local trailer   dealer. The Paillard drum seems to be only available from the factory and their mostly in french web site doesn't have any prices, just a quote request form (in french).
If it matters what gear you’re in, the engine’s too small.

Offline k1200r66

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2019, 10:54:52 pm »
hi
put "tambour paillard" in google search,that give you a few french website how sell them.
 :)

Offline farmer

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2019, 11:19:01 am »
if your drum interior is all cleaned up and the binding is following the drum then your diagnosis sounds right. if your in a panic for the trailer you could remove the brake assembly completely from the hub ...i would be inclined to remove it from both sides of the same axle but thats just me. if you still have one axle braking things should be ok, just remember to be careful approaching road ends and steep hills and such....really the same caution as if your trailer brakes were on all 4 hubs.
i would take the offending hub to a decent motor factor to see if they could identify a replacement...possibly even a breaker.
there is also the option of an engineer with a lathe.
£60 isn't cheap but its not out of the way either....your call
good luck with it anyway

Offline drumwrecker

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2019, 01:08:43 pm »
Shock horror we still have a car with rear drum brakes   ::) with all of the above hassles the easiest solution by some margin is new drums and brake shoes as opposed to getting old drums skimmed and custom brake shoes with thicker linings made.

My Nissan Note has rear drum brakes and TomL does a good job of maintaining them at every service. They are balanced and work well.
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Offline Andym535

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2019, 04:11:16 pm »
hi
put "tambour paillard" in google search,that give you a few french website how sell them.
 :)

That worked, sort of!. I've found a few sites that sell them, but they seem to be about 200 Euros + shipping!
If it matters what gear you’re in, the engine’s too small.

Offline k1200r66

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Re: Nothing to do with bikes... Drum brake problem.
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2019, 08:22:46 pm »
so the prices to,a little be overprice  :(
kNOTT is the supplier for most  of the paillard  braking system .
try that way.