Author Topic: The Wonderful Clutch.......l  (Read 1661 times)

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Offline Phmode

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2019, 10:12:22 pm »
Bastard file on its edge?

Offline richtea

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2019, 10:27:01 pm »
Bastard file on its edge?

Ah, you know my honed mechanic skills. Shh, don't tell everyone.

At least I know file doesn't alway mean 'put it in a drawer'.

Offline Phmode

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2019, 02:14:21 pm »
 ;D ;D

Offline kennyc

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2019, 08:28:03 pm »
picked up my bike from the mechanic tonight, the new Barnett clutch pack has transformed the bike ! no more RTesque "clunk" into first, no problem selecting neutral when stationary, and pull away so much smoother than before  :D
had a look at the old plates..... first and last were down to metal without any sign of friction material! everything else pretty much looked mint !
the Mechanic has kept the good plates for some lucky person who tweaks his charitable side and gets a "previously owned " bargain  8)

Offline paulotex

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2019, 06:52:56 am »
Thanks for the update on your part. I am glad to know that the changes are so noticeable.

I am now in the waiting period, after pulling the trigger and buying the parts. Got a barnett on ebay for £115, which is on its way. Got the small bits (gasket, cover bolts) from Motorworks. Got the tools (clutch basket holder, crankshaft blocking pin, alignment tool for the tensioned gears) from https://www.online-parts.co.uk/. Waiting for all these parts to arrive.

My symptoms are:

* Rattling in neutral with warm engine, which stops when the clutch is pressed. I think it can be a loose oil pump chain or loose clutch basket springs. To be investigated.

* The friction point occurs with the lever very close to the grip. First I thought this was a sign of worn clutch, and so I went ahead and secured the "funding" for all these parts. But after reading some posts on worn wet hydraulic clutches, I am not so sure any more.

It seems that a worn wet hydraulic clutch has the friction point with the lever  far from the grips, so that ultimately it never really engages. This is the opposite of what I am experiencing. Can anyone share the experience of having a worn clutch?

In the end I also ordered some clutch hydraulic fluid and the bleed nipple, to bleed the clutch. Perhaps the friction point issue is just some air in the system...

As the parcels arrive and I get to work (bleeding the system, replacing the clutch, adjusting the oil pump chain) I will let you know my progress.

Offline Phmode

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2019, 10:02:53 am »
Result then Kenny.

Paul. You need to be careful when you describe the K clutch as a wet clutch, especially reading up on symptoms etc.

Our clutch is not a true wet clutch, which is normally one which runs in a bath of oil, normally the same oil as the engine.

The K does use the same oil but it doesn't run in a bath of the stuff, it is merely lubricated by it and then only when the clutch lever is pulled in and the excess oil then drains back into the sump.

Good luck with the rebuild.

Offline paulotex

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2019, 11:17:01 am »
Quote
The K does use the same oil but it doesn't run in a bath of the stuff, it is merely lubricated by it and then only when the clutch lever is pulled in and the excess oil then drains back into the sump.
Thanks for the clarification. You can see how my status of "very amateur mechanic" is revealed by these mistakes.  ::)

Offline Phmode

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2019, 06:04:38 pm »
Not mistakes, easy things to get wrong unless you have been in there.

It's like the engine being a 'dry-sump' unit. It isn't really, it's more of a damp-sump system (TM Stormin47 ) where some oil remains in the sump and in fact, can drain back into the sump from the oil tank.

Offline Andym535

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2019, 01:41:46 pm »

In the end I also ordered some clutch hydraulic fluid and the bleed nipple, to bleed the clutch. Perhaps the friction point issue is just some air in the system...


 Two things to note about clutch fluid on a K...
 1- It’s mineral oil, not normal DOT4 hydraulic fluid
 2- As the clutch wears the fluid level rises, so don’t be tempted to overfill it.
If it matters what gear you’re in, the engine’s too small.

Offline Martin-k12

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2019, 06:01:10 pm »
Hey paulotex,

When mine went it just made the bite point sharp and a little unpredictable.

As with kennyc poor oiling is the main problem, if you have the same as him/me and 95% of other k4* owners, only one or both the end frictions will be far worse than the rest I'd at least do the drill hole mod.

As for the rattle I've only seen two solutions for this....
1. rebuild the basket with new springs (hardest part if finding the springs...) this guy will do it for you although its not cheap but from what I've read his work is excellent and the price includes everything. www.vibefreev.com
2. Find a second hand basket cheaper but you are taking a gamble.

Offline paulotex

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2019, 06:50:06 pm »
1- It’s mineral oil, not normal DOT4 hydraulic fluid
 2- As the clutch wears the fluid level rises, so don’t be tempted to overfill it.
Thanks for the advice. I ordered Hydrauliköl LS (part # 83192150020) from Motorworks. I hope it is the correct fluid. It's pink.

Coming from an old bike (1974 R90S), with a dry clutch and actuated by cables, this hydraulic actuation gets me baffled sometimes. I would think that, as the clutch wears, the fluid level would lower, since the clutch stack of plates and disks also lowers.  :o   This make your advice even more important.

If It does not rain on Saturday I'll do the bleeding, and then Sunday the whole clutch. I will keep you all posted here, possibly even with photos.

Offline paulotex

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2019, 06:52:52 pm »
When mine went it just made the bite point sharp and a little unpredictable.

As with kennyc poor oiling is the main problem, if you have the same as him/me and 95% of other k4* owners, only one or both the end frictions will be far worse than the rest I'd at least do the drill hole mod.

Thanks for the description of the symptom. The bite point is a bit sharp, I have to be careful with it. It is not unpredictable so far.

About the poor oiling, is this still valid for the k1300? I thought it was mostly for the early k1200, and it was solved for the k1300?  ::)

Thanks!

Offline Martin-k12

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2019, 12:42:59 pm »
Hey Paul,

This is one of those poor designs that has never really been fixed just had small updates to try and patch....
In order although I'm not sure on the dates...
Aluminium bung in the end of the gearbox shaft - update to (doesn't matter to you this one only on k12's)
thrust pin with flat - update to
thrust pin with slot and change oil pump drive gear to increase flow pressure - update to
thrust pin with 2 slots
And finally they did try to actually fix the problem with the last mod where they actually modified the basket casting to give the oil a pathway to that first plate. Aka the drill hole most people do now....
There is another mod to fix the problems caused by the extra oiling can be seen on my pics, BMW also do this on later versions.

But to be totally honest I don't think it has ever been fixed properly...And became a serious contributor to the bad reputation/downfall of a great bike.

Offline Andym535

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2019, 01:42:38 pm »

Coming from an old bike (1974 R90S), with a dry clutch and actuated by cables, this hydraulic actuation gets me baffled sometimes. I would think that, as the clutch wears, the fluid level would lower, since the clutch stack of plates and disks also lowers.  :o   This make your advice even more important.


The clutch springs force the plates together; when you pull the clutch in you're pushing the pressure plate back against the springs so the plates can separate. As the plates wear you don't need to push back so far and, as the slave cylinder adjusts to this, fluid goes back up to the reservoir.

RepROM calls the Clutch fluid Vitam LS, with the same part number. It says you remove the reservoir cap using a special tool to press in the lugs then drain and refill the clutch fluid using a syringe connected to the slave cylinder. The tightening torque for the bleed grubscrew is only 3Nm, which is barely more than finger tight.

Good luck, and I look forward to seeing the photos .
If it matters what gear you’re in, the engine’s too small.

Offline kennyc

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Re: The Wonderful Clutch.......l
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2019, 09:12:31 pm »
A reasonable run through for anyone thinking of having a go, and bonus! its not in Spanish! although if required I can supply a link to one "en Espaniol"  :P