Author Topic: battery charger  (Read 2225 times)

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Offline drumwrecker

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2019, 09:57:59 am »
I'll read the instructions.....again.
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Offline Philip

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2019, 02:07:47 pm »
I have a small conditioner type charger, can't remember which make, but it has no switches/ buttons & just shows when it's on & when it's charging.

It works fine either connected direct to the battery or via the canbus socket.

The only thing i've noticed is that when connected via the canbus socket, when the battery voltage rises to full charge, the canbus disconnects it electronically, then re-connects it when the voltage falls again.

Offline Phmode

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2019, 05:08:58 pm »
Does the canbus really re-open the socket when the voltage falls?

I thought it closed the socket when the battery was 'full' and then never opened it again. And that is why the Canbus types were developed to fool the bike into thinking it was always giving current so the socket stayed live.

Being a bear of very small brain and having ridden off twice with the thingummy in the 12v socket, I decided to connect direct to the battery with the Optimate fly-lead. Even I can't ignore the bloody charger cable when it is right under my nose  8)

Offline Philip

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2019, 09:55:43 am »
" Does the canbus really re-open the socket when the voltage falls? "

Bikes been sat since well before Xmas without a charge.

So i'll connect the charger later & monitor what happens over the next day or so.

Offline Philip

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2019, 03:20:16 pm »
I went down to the garage about 20 minutes after the last post & plugged in my flying charging lead.

Voltage was zero so I switched on the ignition to wake up the canbus.
Voltage was 11.5v, so my nearly 9 year old battery was quite discharged.

I switched off the ignition & waited for the voltage on the lead to drop back to zero which it did after about a minute.

Connected my small charger at 10:15 & the voltage rose straight to 12.2v.

I checked the voltage several times over the next 12 hours.
By 13:00 it was just over 14v & at 22:00 it was at 14.64 volts.

I left it charging overnight, when checked at 09:40  the following morning ( almost 24hrs on charge now ) it was at 14.81 volts.

Checked again at 13:00 & it was down at 14.5 volts but the voltage was slowly rising again.

So I don't know if the canbus dropped the connexion then re-connected, or if it was a strategy of the charger to stop charging for a while when it got to a certain voltage.

By 15:30 the voltage was up to 14.76v & charging at 200mA.

So still not really any the wiser as I had better & warmer things to do than stand around in a cold garage for long.

Maybee try again when I know i'm going to be in the garage for a longer period so I can monitor it more closely.

Offline Phmode

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2019, 11:06:13 pm »
What make of conditioning charger is it Philip?

Offline Swindon Andy

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2019, 11:47:56 pm »
My Optimate 4 plugged into the din socket keeps conditioning charging for days. The canbus stays open all the time, as far as I know. I have never seen the Optimate flashing the canbus call other than when starting up.

Offline MadMountainbike

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2019, 10:22:29 am »
Optimate 4 via Canbus, quick convenient, no problems. The only issue I had was when my old battery died after I'd not been maintaining it when the bike was stuck in my workshop during building work.

If you read the Optimate instructions they state that Canbus charging is really only to be used for top up charging of batteries that are in decent shape.

If it's fully discharged they specifically recommend changing the Optimate setting to Direct Charging mode and connecting directly to the battery to try and recover a heavily discharged or completely flat battery. Once it's recovered (mine never did so new battery bought) and holding a charge you can switch back to Canbus.

Devil is in the detail, so it might be why some have had varied results with Canbus... Though nothing's ever gonna fix riding off with the Canbus plug still attached 😂
Sometime XC racer, zero bike skills. Keen skier, no technique. Ex President & hopeless optimist... Especially at high speed or high altitude.

Offline Phmode

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2019, 10:52:13 am »
For me, the huge advantage of using it directly across the battery with the Optimate fly-lead is that the same 'input' lead is used as an 'output' for cameras, topping up the phone battery etc. etc.

Offline Philip

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2019, 11:07:34 am »
What make of conditioning charger is it Philip?
It's a Gunsons Ultimate that I had given to me in a non working condition quite a few years ago.
About the size of a credit card but 1.5" high, so only capable of about 0.5 amps at most I would think.

I repaired it, something simple, might even have just been a blown fuse & I think one of the LED's had to be renewed.

So it's probably something like 15 or more years old.

I've looked on the net & can't find anything like it now but it does the job for me.

Offline Phmode

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2019, 02:38:01 pm »
If it is keeping the CANbus open then it probably never shuts off like a modern battery conditioner such as Optimate. This is NOT a good thing as it means it is putting current into the battery all the time.

The problem with modern but early 'charger/conditioners' e.g.Mark I Optimates, connected via the power port, is that when the battery voltage rises to a 'sufficient' level the 'charger/conditioner'' cuts the current to the battery. This is when, after a short delay, the CANbus shuts off the power port as it is no longer being used. Then, when the battery voltage drops the port remains closed and the 'charger/conditioner' can't then supply current to the battery.

With old-fashioned battery 'chargers' they supply current all the time they are connected which is not a 'good' thing for battery life but it does keep the power port open as yours would seem to be doing.

This conundrum was overcome with the later versions of Optimate etc. which 'fool' the power port into thinking that it is 'in use' all the time and so it remains open. It does this by supplying current to the battery when needed and drawing a very small current from the battery at all other times.

The answer is a modern CANbus-ready conditioner directly across the battery or into the power port if you prefer.

Offline Philip

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2019, 10:32:12 am »
Quite agree, it's not good to leave a battery on a constant charge, even if the charge rate is very low.

I'm sure my battery wouldn't have made it to the age it is if it had a constant charge when not in use.

So I just charge it occasionally & for a few hours before I go out on the bike.

Offline Phmode

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2019, 10:47:02 am »
...but, the 'new-age' conditioners such as the Optimates, are perfectly OK to leave on over the winter for example. The micro-current they do provide is only provided when the battery needs it, not all the time.

The term 'provide' as used above needs putting in the context of electrical theory. The conditioner, in fact any 'power supply' device, only 'provides' the current that the thing it is connected to wants to 'draw'.

There is a huge misconception among users (of power supplies of all sorts and especially in the world of 'finicky' computerised telescopes) that the supply, or charger, somehow 'pushes' current into the device in question. In fact it merely 'allows' the current to be 'drawn' by the device, in our case a battery. So, a 20 Amp power supply will only provide the correct current for a 1 amp device; it won't somehow blow 20 Amps through it and destroy it.

Offline Matt

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2019, 10:55:36 am »
Briaaaaaan! I was about to respond and then your most recent post appeared and I learned/re-learned something and it's only 10:53! So thanks :)

I just checked to be sure and I have a lovely "Optimate 4.3 BMW CAN Bus Goldline Dual Charger". It's plugged into the silly BMW port. And after the whole Christmas few weeks standing it started a treat. Not sure what "Goldline" is about, but I suppose at least it's not "Whitestarline".


Offline Phmode

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Re: battery charger
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2019, 11:43:28 am »
There are so many Optimate variations it baffles even the experts...

They are up to no. 7 already with many versions. The BMW CANbus-ready 4 version only comes with a lead for the 12v socket, not the direct battery lead. Other versions are packaged differently.