EuroKClub

General forum area => K1200 / K1300 Forum => Topic started by: Perbunan on March 08, 2016, 06:13:25 pm

Title: Brake pads
Post by: Perbunan on March 08, 2016, 06:13:25 pm
Had a squeal from front brake this morning so pulled the pads out for a clean and decided they have reached the end  :(  so looking for replacements,

Maybe these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EBC-HH-Front-Brake-Pads-For-BMW-2009-K1300-S-FA335HH-/310845972684?hash=item485fdd20cc:g:qywAAOSwNSxVS87i

Anybody tried these?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-FRONT-BRAKE-PADS-BREMBO-SA-SINTERED-FOR-BMW-K-1300-S-2009-09-07BB26SA-/361206067678?hash=item54198f31de:g:TbAAAOSwmrlU0K53

I've used EBC before which I liked, Any other recommendations welcome  :D


Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Costas on March 08, 2016, 06:16:35 pm
Sintered are not for our discs, so better scrach that out. All the rest by any brand would do the job, but imho only the originals stop the bike as factory set it.
Brembo makes a special paste pad for the oem pads not availiable in market . yet
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TomK1300s on March 08, 2016, 06:21:41 pm
Yes Costas is correct OEM are Brembo, I am useing the Brembo pads without the paste on the back but they do sometimes make a noise, Next time I am going back to OEM from dealer and pay the extra.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Timbox on March 08, 2016, 06:38:15 pm
I was impressed with Carbonne Lorraine on the GT.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TomL on March 08, 2016, 06:50:30 pm
I fitted EBC sintered pads to my K1200S  because I thought that the cost of BMW pads was ridiculously expensive. I've fitted EBC pads to many cars and not had any problems.

Big mistake. The wear and scoring on the discs appeared to increase considerably. The pads left rusty pad shaped marks on the discs if the bike had been put away wet. When I took the pads out the contact face was totally rusty. There was obviously lots of ferous material in the sinter mix. I'd never seen that before. The brakes did not have the same feel or power as with the original BMW pads fitted.

I bit the bullet and fitted BMW pads along with a set of second hand discs off Ebay.  It's OEM pads for me in the future despite the rip off price.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TomL on March 08, 2016, 06:53:47 pm
Yes Costas is correct OEM are Brembo, I am useing the Brembo pads without the paste on the back but they do sometimes make a noise, Next time I am going back to OEM from dealer and pay the extra.
I think you will find that Costas means that the compound of the BMW pads was developed by Brembo for BMW and they are only available from BMW.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Costas on March 08, 2016, 07:06:20 pm
The best combination is BMWs authentic front and CL Carbon Loraine rear. In this way someone saves about 30. At list here and again imho.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Perbunan on March 08, 2016, 08:38:31 pm
Thanks for replys, so what's the difference between the OEM's and these made by Brembo

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-FRONT-BRAKE-PADS-BREMBO-SA-SINTERED-FOR-BMW-K-1300-S-2009-09-07BB26SA-/361206067678?hash=item54198f31de:g:TbAAAOSwmrlU0K53

Is it a different friction material?
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on March 08, 2016, 09:13:19 pm
In a four letter word, yup!
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Costas on March 08, 2016, 09:34:18 pm
Do get confused by the code in the back of the pads its the same , but the code there only reveals dimensions and production codes not the compounds, color is slightly deferent but the compound it totally deferent, the quest went so far as to discover that the oem ones are 18 grams .
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TomK1300s on March 09, 2016, 08:40:12 am
Yes Costas is correct OEM are Brembo, I am useing the Brembo pads without the paste on the back but they do sometimes make a noise, Next time I am going back to OEM from dealer and pay the extra.
I think you will find that Costas means that the compound of the BMW pads was developed by Brembo for BMW and they are only available from BMW.

Hi Tom
The BMW OEM pads are made by Brembo, and you can get the same compound pads but without the backing on them, if you look at the OEM pads they have a Brembo number on them, or at least the set I got did have,
I will check to see if they now do the same pad with a backing shim on them.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TomL on March 09, 2016, 06:23:32 pm
I think you will find that the friction material compound is different.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: AndyLP on March 09, 2016, 08:08:12 pm
Just looked on the BMW website and 51.15 for one set of brake pads  :o

http://www.bmw-motorrad-store.co.uk/bmw-brake-pad-front-brake-k1300s-k1200s-r1200rt-r1200s-r1200gs-2012-r1200gs-adventure-hp2-r1200st-k1300gt-k1200gt.html

Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Timbox on March 09, 2016, 09:11:28 pm
Just looked on the BMW website and 51.15 for one set of brake pads  :o

http://www.bmw-motorrad-store.co.uk/bmw-brake-pad-front-brake-k1300s-k1200s-r1200rt-r1200s-r1200gs-2012-r1200gs-adventure-hp2-r1200st-k1300gt-k1200gt.html

Like M&S, These arent just Brake Pads................. ;)
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: AndyLP on March 09, 2016, 10:24:59 pm
Anyone got good results from non BMW pads because 100 quid to change front pads.....
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Costas on March 10, 2016, 07:22:27 am
Will answer this on behalf of 23 owners of my local club: unfortunately none, wish it was deferent,  165 is the price we pay here for the damn pads.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: AndyLP on March 10, 2016, 07:56:56 am
Will answer this on behalf of 23 owners of my local club: unfortunately none, wish it was deferent,  165 is the price we pay here for the damn pads.

I wish it was different too  :'( 
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Perbunan on March 10, 2016, 10:34:23 am
I've now ordered some TRW Lucas pads, I had them on my R1 with no complaints so will give some feedback once they arrive and I've run them in a little.....4 pads for the price of 2 OEM so we will see
 ::)
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: JackSnipe on March 10, 2016, 11:59:04 am
I use EBC HH pads on all my bikes when required. I have had none of the nightmare scenerios as above with them at all. I have found, without exception, all of them better than stock, be it on a Suzuki, BM, Kawasaki or for that matter Honda. However I do not think heavy braking in a car or motobike is the way to go on the road, it is frenetic and unnessesary. Ok on the Nurburgring. However I do regularly brake test and emergency stop both my Cars and Bikes from differing speeds, on the bikes in particular I test the ABS in the wet and also now and again in suitable conditions on bends strighten the bike up and throw the anchors on. 

As an aside regular brake testing a modern car is nessesary to get the rear brakes on sufficiently to keep them clear of corrosion, and at slowish speeds for the same reason apply the handbrake. (like Brian states below check manual first, other handbrakes are available !)

JS
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on March 10, 2016, 03:44:45 pm
You'll get a bloody great surprise if you try that with an electronic handbrake unless you have studied the manual (cars have manuals I hear you ask). Iwouldn't want to try it on the Audi, way too complicated for my pea-like.

Even the bloody hazard flashers have a life of their own.

My all-time favourite hooligan moment is at the dead of night, Sunday, A339 south into Newbury, Vodaphone roundabout. Really heavy braking, use the whole of my carriageway, snake the damn thing through and give it some welly to the 50 limit sign (30 metres  :( ) .

The first time I nailed the brakes, the hazard flashers came on all by themselves and I spent the next five minutes pootling trough the town poking the hazard button randomly trying to turn the damn things off. Of course, half the time I was turning them back on cos they eventually go off by themselves after (what the car thought was) an emergency stop!

Brian (who read the bookwhen he got home but can't remember what it said  ::) )
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: howlindawg on March 10, 2016, 08:39:45 pm
I used EBC HH pads on the K1200s (servo brakes).
I had no problems with them on the front and felt that the braking was better than OEM.
However the rears were too grabby so I went back to stock.

I didn't experience any issues with excessive wear, scoring or corrosion to the discs.

I'm still running the original pads on the K1300s so am watching this discussion with interest.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Perbunan on March 15, 2016, 05:20:15 pm
I've now ordered some TRW Lucas pads, I had them on my R1 with no complaints so will give some feedback once they arrive and I've run them in a little.....4 pads for the price of 2 OEM so we will see
 ::)

Just a little feedback, pads arrived next day so fitted them straight away and gave calipers a spring clean  :)  after 3 days use (no rain) I'm really pleased with them, great bite and feel and silent operation even without a shim on the rear, these are the non-sintered pads so hopefully no dramatic wear on my discs either, also they are painted black so don't stand out once fitted into caliper, 2 pairs of pads for 54 with free next day delivery so I'm a happy bunny....
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: drumwrecker on April 05, 2016, 06:56:18 pm
I have just been robbed by the local BMW stealer 119 for front pads. I even phoned another dealer thinking a mistake had been made, Balderstons, and they were the same price.
I have heard all sorts od stories about non BMW pads and the excessive wear that might occur with sintered pads.
I found Brembo sintered at 59.97 including VAT and postage. Half price.
I also found a post on the I-K American site where one poster reckons the Brembo pads were better than OEM and didn't cause any adverse wear to the disks. http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?p=601136 post 3.
Do I take them back and try for a refund and buy the sintered Brembo equivalent or stay with the expensive OEM pads?
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on April 05, 2016, 10:38:42 pm
Depends if you want to live or have your benefiniaries sue the local dealer  ::)

Brian (who thinks it implausible that anyone would baulk at the cost of a set of front pads, which stop you, safely, from any speed, when they happily pay a quarter of the price for a tankfull of 5* which only propels you forward at hyper-speed, requiring really GREAT brake pads  :o )

PS A beer to the first person who can work out the saving on the cost of a set of after-market pads that work, against the cost of a set of BMW pads amortised over the life of the pads in terms of the increase in the price of every single gallon of fuel used during their life.

PPS C'mon, it can't be that hard Tim!
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Costas on April 06, 2016, 12:30:42 pm
You're teasing us asking for the impossible.
If someone can produse pads that brake and stop bike on track to the same or at list similar distancr by 20-50cm with the OEM (made by BREMBO but not sold directly to costumers ), then  would be the first to buy them.
The good news are that now that K production has seezed,  soon the exclusive contracts like this one will expire,  now if the pads would be availiable with this compound by BREMBO to market is to be found.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: AndyLP on April 06, 2016, 02:30:09 pm
I have caved in and bought OEM Pads for now.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: drumwrecker on April 06, 2016, 05:50:25 pm
Fitted my OEM pads today.
I wonder how long they will last?
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Costas on April 06, 2016, 09:46:56 pm
As
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: howlindawg on August 28, 2016, 10:46:55 pm
I changed the tyres on the K1300S over the weekend (Pilot Road 4) and swapped out the rear pads while I had the wheel off.
Fitted the Carbone Lorraine RX3 pads as recommended and once they bedded in they're quite impressive.

They bite progressively, are quiet and easily powerful enough to match the fronts.

New rubber and brakes - there's nothing like it to rejuvenate a bike. :)
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Timbox on August 29, 2016, 07:16:57 am
Again, I can only say how it was for me. I saved approximately �300 by fitting Carbonne Lorraine XBK5  to the front of the GT at 24K miles. The bike had gone through 2 sets of OE pads by then, 12K each on the dot.  The CL pads lasted another 36k miles and the discs were still (Just) within spec. The rears were a different matter and no pad I tried lasted more than 10 - 12k including 2 sets of OE, 1 EBC (5k miles!!!!) and another 2 sets of CL A3+ compound. Remember though I was using the bike almost like a DR with lots of town work and filtering where I tend to use the rear brake a fair bit.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Costas on August 29, 2016, 10:04:56 am
It appears that best brrake pad configuration after all kind of reports is oem front and carbon llraine rear. K1300s bikes.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: AndyLP on September 02, 2016, 01:07:02 pm
Where do you order the Lorraine pads from?
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Costas on September 02, 2016, 03:46:13 pm
CL are availiable there am sure , try: carbonelorrainebraking.uk
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TurboBevy on June 14, 2018, 05:36:15 pm
To my shame, I ran the rear pads down to beyond the friction material while on tour around Engerland & Welsh Wales last month. 1150 miles in 7 days. I could hear the rear pads making metal to metal contact (ouch) while on route to Fishguard. Our next stop was Chester, so booked the bike into Chester BMW for the next afternoon and had little option to continue using as little brakes as possible.....

Long & short of it was, new pads and disc fitted while I waited. £310. Problem solved but having to replace the disc at just 16k was a bit extravagent and no-ones fault but my own.  :-[

(https://image.ibb.co/fMPsQJ/Ruined_pads.jpg)

Bike was in for its second MOT last week at Cupar Motorcycles and passed with just one advisory for yes you guessed it. Front pads are worn. Keen for history not to repeat itself, I've ordered and received today a set of these bad boys. Will squeeze them in over the weekend.  8)

https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/403061

Also had a split new pair of Michelin Road 5s fitted pre MOT as the OE Metzlers were shagged in just 4000 miles. Man new tyres are things of joy, the bike rolls into bends like it used to rather than having to be urged to do so. Very early days with the Road 5s but they look and feel the business.

Cheers, TB. 

 
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: richtea on June 14, 2018, 05:45:47 pm

Also had a split new pair of Michelin Road 5s fitted pre MOT as the OE Metzlers were shagged in just 4000 miles.


Wow. 4k. That's bad. You're not rubbing the brake pads on the tyres, or something weird, are you?  :o

Just in interest, what's your MPG?
So we can work out if you're a messiah with a dodgy bike. Or just a naughty boy.

(To paraphrase TomL(?):  Anyone getting more than 54mpg is an idiot, anyone getting less than 46mpg is a maniac.)
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TurboBevy on June 14, 2018, 05:55:21 pm

Also had a split new pair of Michelin Road 5s fitted pre MOT as the OE Metzlers were shagged in just 4000 miles.


Wow. 4k. That's bad. You're not rubbing the brake pads on the tyres, or something weird, are you?  :o

Just in interest, what's your MPG?
So we can work out if you're a messiah with a dodgy bike. Or just a naughty boy.

To paraphrase Tom(?):
Anyone getting more than 52mpg is an idiot, anyone getting less than 46mpg is a maniac.

To be fair. The front had some life left, the rear was on the TWI. I always change them as pairs as this is no scooter.

Avg MPG is around 45, which I thought was good. Certainly better than the 27mpg my GTi returns.

I only ever used to get around 3k from a rear of the VFR and the Versys. Michelin Road 4 were much better on the Versys, I got around 6k on those. High hopes that the Road 5 will return a more reasonable 5k?

Cheers.

Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: raesewell on June 14, 2018, 06:04:56 pm
Hope you said hello to Steve Parry while you were in Chester  ;)
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: richtea on June 14, 2018, 06:19:59 pm

Avg MPG is around 45, which I thought was good. Certainly better than the 27mpg my GTi returns.

I only ever used to get around 3k from a rear of the VFR and the Versys. Michelin Road 4 were much better on the Versys, I got around 6k on those. High hopes that the Road 5 will return a more reasonable 5k?


I'd expect 7-8k with modern tyres.
However, I think you're hooning around a bit quicker than me since my MPG is 49-50 - that's mixed countryside & village/town.
It was 52.5 on the Wrinklies, but then again, you progress a little bit more carefully as a group, if you're not right at the back  :D
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: S BMW on June 14, 2018, 08:31:55 pm
Howdie All,
it so happens mine are up for replacement shortly so what is the recommendation always used EBC so now think oem front and brembo red rear sintered.a good choice ?
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: raesewell on June 14, 2018, 08:36:18 pm
I believe the general consensus it that OEM are best. Expensive but best. You will only get the wear sensors with OEM.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TomL on June 14, 2018, 11:14:39 pm
No wear sensors on the K1300S.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: raesewell on June 15, 2018, 08:55:56 am
No wear sensors on the K1300S.
Right Tom, I wasn't sure, just though it was worth a mention. The wear sensors were rubbish anyway  ;)
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TurboBevy on June 16, 2018, 02:12:22 pm
I believe the general consensus it that OEM are best. Expensive but best. You will only get the wear sensors with OEM.

Fair play. Brembo pads are more easily sourced and with the OEM only returning some 4000 miles, WTF. I've gone with these Brembos in the hope they'll be as good and last that wee bit longer? I've also got another trip booked for the Western Isles, for mid-July, before the bike will go in for its first 18k service in early August. The front pads however need changing now.  I knew this before I bought it, but these bikes are not cheap to run, service, own.

Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: raesewell on June 16, 2018, 02:26:21 pm
Was 4000 miles a typo, I got 40,000 plus from my OEM front brake pads
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: richtea on June 16, 2018, 02:46:06 pm

Fair play. Brembo pads are more easily sourced and with the OEM only returning some 4000 miles, WTF.


4k for pads as well as tyres?
If BMW are servicing it, I'd ask them if there's a fault. It doesn't feel right.

I had a pad change at 18k, and another at 31k (= 13k pad life). The first 8k were ridden by someone else, so I think I may be a heavy user. Which makes sense since I'm a heavy person.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Matt on June 16, 2018, 04:48:48 pm
I think I generally am 18-24 months between pads, which is between 10 and 20k miles ish.

Ish.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on June 16, 2018, 09:27:22 pm
If my PR3/4's give less than 7,000 miles I would sell the bike.

If my pads ever needed changing I burn it.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: peterwbaker on June 17, 2018, 11:58:24 am
Interesting thread!

18K Service due next week and new pads all round as they down to the bottom of the groove - will go with OEM this time.

Rear PR4/Roadtec01 tyres on average just over 5K and 47 MPG all of which I am pretty happy with given the grin factor!

Peter
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TurboBevy on June 23, 2018, 03:33:43 pm
Front pads now replaced which is a very straightforward job indeed thanks to the caliper pistons sliding back easily with the use of the special tool that is my big fat thumbs. Pads had just over 2mm of friction material remaining. Perhaps they were not brand new when I bought the bike in May last year? Rear pads were though, but I have history here as I use the back brake, a lot.  ;D

Bit surprised that the BMW workshop manual makes no mention of reapplying thread locker to the brake caliper bolts, but then I only removed them as it makes the job easier and caliper cleaning more thorough.

Money spent on brakes & tyres is never money wasted.  :)
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on June 23, 2018, 05:14:12 pm
And no one ever got fired for buying OEM  ::)
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: paulotex on July 11, 2018, 10:31:20 am
Great thread, I'm glad it was revived recently.

I got a 2010 K1300R a month ago, with 22k miles. I suspect I need a new rear disk, and so I'll be getting some new pads too. I was thinking I would go for:

Rear disk: Brembo Oro Part # 68.B407.C0
https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/400195
 (https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/400195)

Rear pads: Brembo Organic(?)
https://www.bmw-motorrad-bohling.com/uk/bmw-brake-pads-back-for-k1200s-k1200r-k1200r-sport-k1300r-k1300s.html
 (https://www.bmw-motorrad-bohling.com/uk/bmw-brake-pads-back-for-k1200s-k1200r-k1200r-sport-k1300r-k1300s.html)
(Is this the OEM that you all have been mentioning?)

Is this the right combination?

Thanks.

PS:

And now some explanation why I think I need new pads:

The bike came with very little service history, unfortunately, so I took it to my local BMW to do a regular service. They warned me that the rear disk is a bit under spec (4.3 instead of 4.5mm), and that next time it will need replacement. However, I have noticed that the rear disk is always uncomfortably warm to the touch, even when the front disks are cool. I use the front brake more than the rear, so I find this strange. I already removed the rear caliper and cleaned it a bit. The pistons didn't seem stuck.

In addition, the rear disk does not seem straight when I slide it between my fingers, radially from the inside to the outside of the disk.

And that is why I suspect that there is a bit of warping, and that I might need to replace the rear disk.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on July 11, 2018, 12:45:57 pm
Disc warpage or run-out is one sure cause of an overheating disc, especially if you have freed the pistons and don't use it overly much. Most don't realise that the pads 'float' on the disc surface all the time, unless you get pad knock-back from a horrendous tank-slapper for instance, and so a warped disc will have them wobbling back and forth and getting hot in the process.

The arguments about which bits to buy will be going on long into the night but for my peace of mind and money I will always go for the genuine article from the nice Mr BMW.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: paulotex on July 30, 2018, 08:55:02 am
Just an update on replacing the rear disk and pads due to suspected warp/overheating:

I just went for a short ride with the new parts. After a 2 min ride at 60mph the rear disk is warm, but not uncomfortable. Previously, it would hurt to the touch after just 2 minutes of riding at 60 mph. Now it is simply warm. The front disk is still a bit cooler though. I will leave this for now, but will keep checking, specially after a few spirited longer runs.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on August 02, 2018, 08:56:52 pm
Did you do anything about the pistons? Did I miss it?
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: paulotex on August 06, 2018, 03:40:35 pm
When I removed the caliper, I could not tell that the pistons were stuck. They moved. So I cleaned and lubed them a bit (copper paste). Last weekend I went for a 200 mile trip under the heat (100 mile round trip to the coast) and everything went well. The rear disk is warm, almost uncomfortable, but does not burn. Before, with the old disk, it would hurt if touched for more than 1/2 second. So I think there is some improvement there.

I am worried about the rear new pads, though. I did go for sintered ones, because although I read they should not be used for the front brakes, I thought they are ok for the rear. I am not so sure now anymore, and I worry they might score the rear disk.

Can anyone confirm that I can use these sintered pads on the rear:
https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/396237

If the answer is no, I will replace them. Better that than destroying a new disk...

Thanks!
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TomL on August 06, 2018, 11:57:14 pm
When I removed the caliper, I could not tell that the pistons were stuck. They moved. So I cleaned and lubed them a bit (copper paste). Last weekend I went for a 200 mile trip under the heat (100 mile round trip to the coast) and everything went well. The rear disk is warm, almost uncomfortable, but does not burn. Before, with the old disk, it would hurt if touched for more than 1/2 second. So I think there is some improvement there.

I am worried about the rear new pads, though. I did go for sintered ones, because although I read they should not be used for the front brakes, I thought they are ok for the rear. I am not so sure now anymore, and I worry they might score the rear disk.

Can anyone confirm that I can use these sintered pads on the rear:
https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/396237


If the answer is no, I will replace them. Better that than destroying a new disk...

Thanks!
You should not lube the pistons with copper paste. It might even bugger up the seals and piston rubber dust seals.

If you want to free off the pistons you can put a drop of brake fluid on the protruding piston and allow it to run down into the calliper body. Ease the piston in and carefully pump it out a few times cleaning the piston when it is out.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: stevel on August 07, 2018, 08:53:47 am
+1 on what Tom said - copper grease is a big no-no here. It will swell the seals, making them stiffer and adding to your problems. Worse, it could degrade the seals enough to cause them to fail under pressure. Not likely, but possible. Not a risk I'd want to take.

The correct product to lubricate pistons with is either a bit of brake fluid, although that doesn't last long, or some red rubber grease ( specially formulated not to harm rubber seals).

Reading back, your problem may well be that the seals have gone anyway, and aren't pulling the pads back from the disc as they should. Given the copper grease contamination, I would opt for a full overhaul of the calipers, with new seals. After that your brakes should work like new.

Steve
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on August 07, 2018, 01:41:08 pm
And then I get some flak occasionally for saying only buy a K with a full dealer service history...

If you don't know how your bike works, take it to someone who does.

To enlarge on what Steve said about the seals, piston seals are designed to 'flex' when the brakes are applied, stretching outward ever so slightly. When you release the pressure, the seals return to their 'normal' shape and position in the groove, taking the piston back with them ever so slightly and if it works, this link shows you in a piccie...

https://goo.gl/images/TNLqeU

There are tons of images and good videos on the web showing how to do stuff properly, so please, either do it the right way or take it to someone who knows how, we can't afford to lose members to brake failure and make sure that you get the caliper stripped, cleaned and new seals fitted and if the pistons are corroded in the seal 'swept' area after a good clean up, then new pistons are in order too.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: black-k1 on August 07, 2018, 02:08:54 pm
And then I get some flak occasionally for saying only buy a K with a full dealer service history...

If you don't know how your bike works, take it to someone who does.

To enlarge on what Steve said about the seals, piston seals are designed to 'flex' when the brakes are applied, stretching outward ever so slightly. When you release the pressure, the seals return to their 'normal' shape and position in the groove, taking the piston back with them ever so slightly and if it works, this link shows you in a piccie...

https://goo.gl/images/TNLqeU

There are tons of images and good videos on the web showing how to do stuff properly, so please, either do it the right way or take it to someone who knows how, we can't afford to lose members to brake failure and make sure that you get the caliper stripped, cleaned and new seals fitted and if the pistons are corroded in the seal 'swept' area after a good clean up, then new pistons are in order too.

Just to give the other side of the picture

My K1300Ss have both been fully dealer serviced. After one such service, I picked up the bike, met with a friend and we then picked up my two sons for a long weekend in France looking at WW1 and WW2 sites. As I pulled off the A12 onto the M25 slip road, with my eldest son on the pillion, having been travelling at ... er ... speed, I slowed for the trafic lights on the round about and applied some brake. The lever came back to the bars and nothing happened. (Luckily I always use foot brake as well so slowing was done on the rear.) I pulled over to find the right hand front caliper swinging freely from the end of the brake line and totally separate to the "fork leg".  The new brake pads had been fitted correctly without the wrong type of grease but the caliper mounting bolts had not seen a torque wrench!

Just make sure you take your bike to someone who knows what they're doing!
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Blobby on August 07, 2018, 03:24:22 pm
and just to throw another angle to this. Before setting off make sure your vehicle is roadworthy, lights etc. and if on a long journey have a look over all the components like axle bolts, chain slack (where fitted) and anything thing else you rely on..

and before you ask other than lights and do the wheels go round and tyres have no nails in them, I don't check anything i get on and ride mainly because i do all my own maintenance and my OCD prevents such errors, but yes the dealer should have checked the calliper bolt torques etc. and would be getting a very angry person in their showroom shouting from the roof tops if it were me.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: paulotex on August 07, 2018, 03:55:53 pm
Thanks everyone for the replies and for the concerned shown! I'll remove the caliper this evening for a thorough cleaning...
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: black-k1 on August 07, 2018, 04:33:49 pm
and would be getting a very angry person in their showroom shouting from the roof tops if it were me.

They did! I was!
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: paulotex on August 07, 2018, 05:55:26 pm
Quick update.

To answer my own question: sintered rear pads are also NOT recommended. After 2 weeks & less than a 1000 miles usage, mine are already pitted. Will order the OEM ones now.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: alaskier on August 07, 2018, 09:30:44 pm
I doubt whether anyone will believe this but I changed my front pads to Brembo sintered pads on 33,000 miles. I have just clicked over 79,000 miles and there is still a couple of millimetres there. My front discs are now on 4mm so I will probably replace the discs and pads whether they need it or not at my next service which is about 4,000 miles time.

Out of interest, I have replaced the rear pads twice during this time. Also, I tend to use the gear box to wipe speed rather than using my brakes. I am the same with my car.

Sorry, just noticed, this post was intended to be in response to AndyLP's post of sometime in 2016 - it was at the foot of the first page of this thread. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[. Smileys don't work for me either - supposed to end this paragraph with a line of embarrassed faces ...

 

Cheers for now,
Tony
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: alaskier on August 07, 2018, 09:41:45 pm
Maybe the smileys do work after all. And AndyLP's post was March 09 2016 so as usual I am a couple of years and more behind the trend.


T.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on August 07, 2018, 10:03:51 pm
No smiley's for me  ;D :D ;D...

,,,and this is about all I have left on my line of smiley's above the text entry box...
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TomL on August 07, 2018, 11:44:12 pm
And then I get some flak occasionally for saying only buy a K with a full dealer service history...

If you don't know how your bike works, take it to someone who does.

To enlarge on what Steve said about the seals, piston seals are designed to 'flex' when the brakes are applied, stretching outward ever so slightly. When you release the pressure, the seals return to their 'normal' shape and position in the groove, taking the piston back with them ever so slightly and if it works, this link shows you in a piccie...

https://goo.gl/images/TNLqeU

There are tons of images and good videos on the web showing how to do stuff properly, so please, either do it the right way or take it to someone who knows how, we can't afford to lose members to brake failure and make sure that you get the caliper stripped, cleaned and new seals fitted and if the pistons are corroded in the seal 'swept' area after a good clean up, then new pistons are in order too.

Just to give the other side of the picture

My K1300Ss have both been fully dealer serviced. After one such service, I picked up the bike, met with a friend and we then picked up my two sons for a long weekend in France looking at WW1 and WW2 sites. As I pulled off the A12 onto the M25 slip road, with my eldest son on the pillion, having been travelling at ... er ... speed, I slowed for the trafic lights on the round about and applied some brake. The lever came back to the bars and nothing happened. (Luckily I always use foot brake as well so slowing was done on the rear.) I pulled over to find the right hand front caliper swinging freely from the end of the brake line and totally separate to the "fork leg".  The new brake pads had been fitted correctly without the wrong type of grease but the caliper mounting bolts had not seen a torque wrench!

Just make sure you take your bike to someone who knows what they're doing!
The mechanic was probable distracted by a phone call or something similar and thought that he had done them up. I always place the spanner on the fixing that needs to be tightened next, when my mobile rings when I'm working.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: black-k1 on August 08, 2018, 08:21:31 am
And then I get some flak occasionally for saying only buy a K with a full dealer service history...

If you don't know how your bike works, take it to someone who does.

To enlarge on what Steve said about the seals, piston seals are designed to 'flex' when the brakes are applied, stretching outward ever so slightly. When you release the pressure, the seals return to their 'normal' shape and position in the groove, taking the piston back with them ever so slightly and if it works, this link shows you in a piccie...

https://goo.gl/images/TNLqeU

There are tons of images and good videos on the web showing how to do stuff properly, so please, either do it the right way or take it to someone who knows how, we can't afford to lose members to brake failure and make sure that you get the caliper stripped, cleaned and new seals fitted and if the pistons are corroded in the seal 'swept' area after a good clean up, then new pistons are in order too.

Just to give the other side of the picture

My K1300Ss have both been fully dealer serviced. After one such service, I picked up the bike, met with a friend and we then picked up my two sons for a long weekend in France looking at WW1 and WW2 sites. As I pulled off the A12 onto the M25 slip road, with my eldest son on the pillion, having been travelling at ... er ... speed, I slowed for the trafic lights on the round about and applied some brake. The lever came back to the bars and nothing happened. (Luckily I always use foot brake as well so slowing was done on the rear.) I pulled over to find the right hand front caliper swinging freely from the end of the brake line and totally separate to the "fork leg".  The new brake pads had been fitted correctly without the wrong type of grease but the caliper mounting bolts had not seen a torque wrench!

Just make sure you take your bike to someone who knows what they're doing!
The mechanic was probable distracted by a phone call or something similar and thought that he had done them up. I always place the spanner on the fixing that needs to be tightened next, when my mobile rings when I'm working.

Indeed, easily done. The good thing that came from it was that the dealer instigated a process where torque settings were check by a second person before the bike was released to the customer.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on August 08, 2018, 10:42:36 pm
As one who comes from and was inculcated by the military system, being a licenced engineer is no small responsibility.

As an  overseeing engineer, signing off an aircraft as being 'Fit to fly' was the ultimate act before the pilot took charge of the craft and took to the sky. There was always the 'risk' that the crew would perish if your signature was not based on solid engineering oversight.

You either knew your engineers and trusted them or you checked and checked again. I have found things wrong on a (small) number of occasions and as an electronics engineer the risk of aircraft or crew loss was exceedingly low. The thought, however, that you were being flippant with your craft, was always a very sobering thought.

Licenced engineers in the auto industry should be the norm. The number of indecipherable scrawled initials I have on my bike's documents are way too many for my liking and if something goes wrong it has to get to the heights of a coroner's court before anyone is held to account.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: markyates on August 08, 2018, 11:44:10 pm
Ditto the above - I had torpedoes, missiles and nameless weapons to think about.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: MadMountainbike on August 11, 2018, 05:39:06 pm
This is an interesting thread... I understand the 'comfort factor' in picking an OEM pad... But frankly the discs are just steel discs, standard fare on nearly every bike out there. Why would sintered pads not work?

It's a well tested and proven compound and is universally used with steel discs. If they didn't work they wouldn't get their safety mark or be allowed to retail them for bikes. I'm pretty sure after looking at the OE pads that they aren't an organic compound and it's unlikely that they are a ceramic mix as they don't fare that well in road conditions which leaves me suspecting that they're a Brembo Sinter compound.

Just curious if there's any actual evidence that you're not supposed to use sintered pads on K12/13s (if so how come every brake manufacturer who offers K12 compatible pads offers them as sintered?) or is this chat just speculation and anecdote?
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: fjtwelve on August 11, 2018, 06:52:04 pm
I've had sintered pads since I replaced my discs 19-20000 miles back. I managed to warp one of the front discs but not so much as its a problem, don't know if it was a dodgy disc or the pads but its not been an issue since. Wasn't a particular choice, they were recommended with the Brembo discs I bought. I discovered during changing them that all the OE stuff was Brembo anyway.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TomL on August 11, 2018, 11:34:12 pm
They are made by Brembo in conjunction with BMW and only available from BMW.

MadMountainbike use the Brembo sintered pads and watch how quickly your discs wear.

The cost of OEM pads is crazy but they work much better than anything else out there which is why I use them and nothing else.

Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on August 12, 2018, 11:59:28 am
or is this chat just speculation and anecdote?

It's just speculation and anecdote from long time users who wore their discs out really quickly  ;D
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: MadMountainbike on August 15, 2018, 05:59:44 pm
But if all your doing is burning through £200 sets of pads to keep from replacing cheap standard Brembo steel discs where's the common sense in that?... Or are you telling me the discs are a special super secret steel only available to BMW 😄
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Kennycagiva on August 16, 2018, 02:26:38 am
I got rid of OEM pads due to lack of feel when hot. Used EBC HH pads ever since. Everything has been fine. Scoring on discs does not come from the pads but the dirt stuck in them or heat expansion holes. If your brakes squeal it's unlikely to be the front face causing it. Clean the rear of the pad and the shim, then coat with copper grease and refit.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: drumwrecker on August 16, 2018, 10:30:57 am
Why are you putting copper grease anywhere near a brake calliper?

Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Kennycagiva on August 16, 2018, 04:27:05 pm
Because brake squeal is more often than not vibration between brake piston and brake pad or pad shim. Copper grease on the rear of the pad stops this and also helps with heat dissipation and transfer.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: gibbo on August 17, 2018, 07:34:12 am
Because brake squeal is more often than not vibration between brake piston and brake pad or pad shim. Copper grease on the rear of the pad stops this and also helps with heat dissipation and transfer.


Makes a lot of sense to me.  ;)
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on August 18, 2018, 07:29:38 pm
I've always used Copaslip on all slidimg and mating parts of calipers and pads.

For Ron's peace of mind, that excludes the friction faces of the pads. Not only stops squeals and sticking but helps keep the crap out of the slidy bits.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Perbunan on August 19, 2018, 08:31:23 am
Since my initial post I fitted Lucas TRW pads and have fitted them to several bikes since and find them exceptional, both price wise and performance wise, I like em so much I don't even bother looking at other brands now it's just a case of looking around for the best deal  :)
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: MadMountainbike on August 19, 2018, 09:59:50 am
Since my initial post I fitted Lucas TRW pads and have fitted them to several bikes since and find them exceptional, both price wise and performance wise, I like em so much I don't even bother looking at other brands now it's just a case of looking around for the best deal  :)

Cheers for the update and much as I'd suspected 😊

People seem to forget that the technology and compounds used for the OEM stuff is well over a decade old now. I've opted for some Brembo replacements, they developed the originals and given the intervening decade's worth of R&D on their product range i think that's a fairly sensible choice.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Andym535 on August 19, 2018, 10:29:23 pm
I've always used Copaslip on all slidimg and mating parts of calipers and pads.

I thought you were supposed to use red rubber grease on the pins at least, not the copper stuff.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: raesewell on August 20, 2018, 10:00:50 am
Red rubber grease is for, wait for it, rubber, any antiseize for the pins and a light smear of copper grease on the back of the pads.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: MadMountainbike on August 20, 2018, 11:26:18 am
Red rubber grease is for, wait for it, rubber, any antiseize for the pins and a light smear of copper grease on the back of the pads.

Yep ditto what Rae and Kenny said... obviously taking great care not to contaminate the friction surfaces 😊
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: paulotex on September 07, 2018, 11:58:41 am
Going back to the sinthered pads, this is what mine looked like after two weeks of use and a few hundred miles.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0AJP2t__SsUVYCi7ed602tiWSnkn3jpd_82z_haLncUOZ_ol0yFTdcIeLmFmLALH1LzOjuT7LljLGkM9OBsvuNpppTfXe2awre5FUPtO1xCJ1FKXKPCgGEvPuflFMp6hijvcLDpsPy8bEMA4nCE1ZIjaMXW9-aXaQ6t57jqqAtoHrEtA-MD-P1bCnCYL1LzqHMSaedPvZVfkfF6oYPCmWTVKb4-6SjZvcmtJsB2xjsy1IGr2LDpYVc6uwfFRuGQ6Q4s9iYrH0sXlbyTI6ywT6NavvC8t71uDuL8jxpFm2Z7bSbPnIbjC1txp_uFUNIf-yFZBNjMQLu6EjiD8-bBny5IhxV2yWkkiAcPom4UaQtw6HoblIceWl3wy2HSeeg6rCD3GnsMQsam8Zyw6ZUSYpsdvyZ0_i7LiO0eAYCkIcAqb8IgR9F6F2jvmckLCxQdyHr7mvTRnb0KEt1D-VV6BHYW1QZTSKDIQ7y6oxMffZvT3qe3mMZ86yZueFIEzmAWGPabMXrqL18LMEkkx-j4UKvIsJu1W87nVszXYV1AAcGdoFSjMjOP188J18igU2wqU318BuTG9xZl9T30IyjYjarlLU1RU-e7PfMuSkQTfEnehQOF88DMt8toU79EsJUKagbakRE9CQpmyoi__yUoNzd75SScyAnaLhLEHlTyaNYAMl5UbDNtxL5MekQ=w917-h1222-no)


This doesn't seem right to me, all this pitting. So I replace dthem with EBC FA671 from Motorworks:.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on September 07, 2018, 09:47:47 pm
Nice try but no piccie...
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: paulotex on September 09, 2018, 08:07:20 am
Is this fixed now? I logged out of google and could see the pic...
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: richtea on September 09, 2018, 09:31:22 am
Working OK for me.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on September 09, 2018, 07:01:31 pm
And me, now  :D
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: TomL on September 09, 2018, 09:50:34 pm
Going back to the sinthered pads, this is what mine looked like after two weeks of use and a few hundred miles.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0AJP2t__SsUVYCi7ed602tiWSnkn3jpd_82z_haLncUOZ_ol0yFTdcIeLmFmLALH1LzOjuT7LljLGkM9OBsvuNpppTfXe2awre5FUPtO1xCJ1FKXKPCgGEvPuflFMp6hijvcLDpsPy8bEMA4nCE1ZIjaMXW9-aXaQ6t57jqqAtoHrEtA-MD-P1bCnCYL1LzqHMSaedPvZVfkfF6oYPCmWTVKb4-6SjZvcmtJsB2xjsy1IGr2LDpYVc6uwfFRuGQ6Q4s9iYrH0sXlbyTI6ywT6NavvC8t71uDuL8jxpFm2Z7bSbPnIbjC1txp_uFUNIf-yFZBNjMQLu6EjiD8-bBny5IhxV2yWkkiAcPom4UaQtw6HoblIceWl3wy2HSeeg6rCD3GnsMQsam8Zyw6ZUSYpsdvyZ0_i7LiO0eAYCkIcAqb8IgR9F6F2jvmckLCxQdyHr7mvTRnb0KEt1D-VV6BHYW1QZTSKDIQ7y6oxMffZvT3qe3mMZ86yZueFIEzmAWGPabMXrqL18LMEkkx-j4UKvIsJu1W87nVszXYV1AAcGdoFSjMjOP188J18igU2wqU318BuTG9xZl9T30IyjYjarlLU1RU-e7PfMuSkQTfEnehQOF88DMt8toU79EsJUKagbakRE9CQpmyoi__yUoNzd75SScyAnaLhLEHlTyaNYAMl5UbDNtxL5MekQ=w917-h1222-no)


This doesn't seem right to me, all this pitting. So I replace dthem with EBC FA671 from Motorworks:.
I would like to see them after the bike is put away wet. That and where they have sat against the discs.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on September 10, 2018, 11:11:11 am
Bloody hell Tom. They look like the fields of Flanders after the great war.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: fjtwelve on September 10, 2018, 03:49:17 pm
Did you deliberately wait until 11.11.11 to post that?
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Matt on September 10, 2018, 04:08:29 pm
haha!

This thread has reminded me I need to buy pads for the bike AND the car! And then tyres for at least the car!

And more beer... making ingredients.
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Phmode on September 11, 2018, 07:59:40 pm
Did you deliberately wait until 11.11.11 to post that?

You couldn't do it if you tried, the internet demon would farkle it up. But so, so apposite...
Title: Re: Brake pads
Post by: Costas on September 14, 2018, 04:02:35 pm
First factory fitting metzelers do not last longer that 4000 so well done on fast riding .
Rear brakes disc and pads are solemnly your mistake . Do not use rear brake if needed the system will engage then via the abs pump. So your right foot away fm it .