Leather v Textile

[Matt]

On the safety front when comparing leather with textiles, remember that we can only judge relative safety by the testing the various suits are approved under. While many textile suits now achieve the new EN 17092 standard, very few manage the older, tougher (and thus better?) EN 13595

https://www.bksleather.co.uk/textiles/suits

From the BKS page it would appear that bike plod only want to use the older, higher standard. My view would be that if the new standard is not good enough for the emergency services then why is it deemed good enough for us mere mortals? After all, the damage from hitting the road at 60mph doesn't differentiate according to your occupation.

Was just reading the thread on this, what a mess!

@rae: damn it yes, that is a much easier and accurate reference!

[richtea]

BKS stuff (the real BKS as Rae has previously pointed out) is extremely good, but boy is it expensive.
However, that looks the bees knees. And it zips to your existing BKS leathers, David. A no brainer. 

They're so good, they've exhumed Alan Rickman, popped his Love Actually glasses on, and re-purposed him as the plod:
https://www.bksleather.co.uk/textiles/police-motorcycle-clothing-new-era

[andym2]

Is that the one Bobbie/Bobby wears?

If so we're going to need bigger engines, it's a heavy thing!

@Rae it's what one could describe as a futuristic suit of power armour. Imagine what Boston Dynamics will be doing in a few years if the world insists on humans remaining in the kill chain. That's pretty much it.

Yes, that's the one. I think she was carrying it in one episode, so maybe not that heavy. Or maybe it was on wheels, in space, or something. Rain soaked leathers aren't exactly light either though.

I wonder if soggy leather would score any differently in abrasion tests than when it's dry? If anything a bit of water on a textile suit would help it slide, but a good soaking would soften leather.

I've got both so I'd say I'm neutral on the leather v textile debate, but don't wear leathers when there's a risk of getting seriously rained on.

[Swindon Andy]

Leathers with waterproof jacket and trews over works for me when it's wet or very cold. Fabrics can lose their proofing. Do they all?

[armstrongracer]

For track use or serious hooning its leathers for me, have some RS Taichi's, survived some major offs with them. Apparently BKS copied their seam construction.   Day to day its a Spidi Goretex jacket and Resurgence jeans. I think they are AAA rated for abrasion which is up there with leather. Pricey but fairly hot & heavy however, I can wear them at work without having to change. They come with D30 inserts for hips & knees. I've found that at motorway speeds if I keep my knees tucked in the K13 fairing does a reasonable job of keeping water off my legs. The Spidi is Goretex Pro (laminated, not an inner) amazing piece of kit and half the cost of Rukka, apart from rain coming off my helmet down my neck that jacket has never let water in.

[richtea]

Leathers with waterproof jacket and trews over works for me when it's wet or very cold. Fabrics can lose their proofing. Do they all?

That mostly works for me too, as long as you can find good waterproof outer layers.
For some reason I've got cold this year, even though it's milder than normal in the UK. And I'm thinking about textiles? Must be getting a bit nesh.

[fjtwelve]

I've worn my Hein Gericke touring 2 piece leathers for maybe 15 years now, with a variety of oversuits and waterproofs for the cold and wet days. I became increasingly exasperated with the palaver of getting it all on for short trips in shitty weather. or having to stop in rain storms on otherwise dry days.  Then I experienced the extreme betty swallocks riding around in 30 t0 38C in Holland and was horribly uncomfortable unless travelling rapidly. Thus I promised myself a set of textiles one day.
So 2 years ago I bought a set of BMW Enduroguard in a half price sale (had to buy a K13 as well but that's bargaining for beginners, and advanced wifesplaining when you said you were only going out for the clothing sale and came home with a(nother) bike). These have armour, lots of layers, size adjustments, and cooling vents everywhere with clever waterproof zips and can deal with almost every weather except the cold. I now wear these most of the year. However, as often written elsewhere textiles are not warm, ok for a short trip on a cold day but you feel it after a while. Rather than succumb to spending even more money on heated clothing, I wear the leathers and oversuit in the cold, and as I do few short trips these days its not a bother.

[andym2]

The Down-X liners that came with my textile suit fit under leathers too... They compress to nearly nothing but still keep you toasty warm.

[Motorradpilot]

From the BKS page it would appear that bike plod only want to use the older, higher standard. My view would be that if the new standard is not good enough for the emergency services then why is it deemed good enough for us mere mortals? After all, the damage from hitting the road at 60mph doesn't differentiate according to your occupation.

Cambridge University designed the old standard (EN 13595). Albeit, Cambridge had three protection levels: low, medium and high performance. While the EU adopted the Cambridge standard, Dainese and Alpinestars lobbied successfully for level 3 (high protection) to be removed.

In contrast, the European committee that designed the new standard (EN 17092) was chaired by a Dainese representative, and half the standards committee were industry representatives. In short, the poachers were also the gamekeepers.

Post-Brexit, I’d like to think the British Standards Institute would be better. But it’s still led by the industry (not riders, A&E medics or independent experts). And Knox has been lobbying against higher protection standards.

[Motorradpilot]

While many textile suits now achieve the new EN 17092 standard, very few manage the older, tougher (and thus better?) EN 13595

https://www.bksleather.co.uk/textiles/suits

From the BKS page it would appear that bike plod only want to use the older, higher standard. My view would be that if the new standard is not good enough for the emergency services then why is it deemed good enough for us mere mortals? After all, the damage from hitting the road at 60mph doesn't differentiate according to your occupation.

Have you seen the new Gold, Platinum and Diamond safety standards for motorcycle clothing?

See: https://youtu.be/5QcWajVTfB4 

You’ll like it

[richtea]

Just reviving this thread.

Six months on, they seem to be making quite slow progress on testing:
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/high-performance-safest-motorcycle-clothing

Gold - a few, but mostly RST and Goldtop
Platiumn - empty
Diamond - just BKS

A useful 4th category might have been 'Fail'.

Of the 5 gloves in Gold, only one is CE Level 2.

And which twonk came up with mixing gems & metals as levels. Diamond is the highest, by the way, if it's not obvious.
It wasn't to my gold-addled brain until I started opening the lists up. 

[Phmode]

I think the stars give the clue Richard and that's what they should have stuck with...

[richtea]

I think the stars give the clue Richard and that's what they should have stuck with...

Doh! Didn't even notice them. Thank you.

[Phmode]

Well, as amateur astronomist, spotting stars is what I do...

[raesewell]