2008 K1200GT

[tmccusker]

Thanks Brian
What you are stating is the way I'm leaning a bit more - get it on load a see what it does -

I replaced the cam chain and sprockets (and oil chain) and was super  cautious in checking it all out for interference/ timing, chain tensions,  etc. - not a mistake you want to make!

Those cage springs are very lose and should be replaced - but they can wait. The whole train turns well (can't do it as easy now the plugs are back in). On the oil issue, I've been following 4hundredfours journey and comparing it with my set up - which again is different on the basket. I did a lot of turning the engine over at the completion of the assembly (while the plugs were out) to get the oil circulated, and the clutch lay in a bag of oil for days waiting to be installed. And I do understand that what BMW mean by a wet clutch is more akin to a "lubricated" clutch - something must have been lost in the German to English translation! or they just got it somewhat wrong.

For me the big unexpected bonus, was curing that silly idle problem which I've lived with for years (EPA stuff) - the bike cutting out midway across a major road junction as the lights change........ took me back to being a young boy pushing my little trike along the pavement (apart from the 50 cars heading towards me at 60mph....)

Thanks again, once I get things out the way, I'll look at posting the photos, many of which will be of no surprise to anyone on the forum - Tom

[fjtwelve]

When BSD remapped mine one of the first things they did was permanently disconnect the secondary air feed. One of the main improvements of the remap was cleaning up that crappy running below 3000rpm.

[tmccusker]

I actually kept mine in line - even if it just plugs the hose!

The charcoal filter (I assume) takes tank vent gases and puts them into the system for burning BUT it is also connected to the fuel fill nozzle overflow (and I fill to the brink every time out of habit). Having this "wet" fuel dump straight into the filter must have a negative impact on the vent gas recovery aspect - i.e. it screws up the filter and leaves the mapping at a bit of loss on how to manage it. Possibly, having been saturated in good ethanol rich fuel (and we certainly have a lower octane quality of fuel here in US than UK), it does not function as it was designed. (I struggle to keep my lawn mowers going with this crap fuel - it dissolves everything).

I ran the fuel overflow straight down the frame to drain with the other drain hoses and closed off the hose from the filter which took it into the system.

As mentioned, the annual inspection where I'm living do not have emission tests on bikes, many counties/ states do - and very likely the UK does - so I'd add that cautionary not - T

[Phmode]

Emissions tests in UK are only for cars and trucks.

Bikes can have the cat removed which is illegal for cars although there is a burgeoning industry in cutting open cats, removing the clogged matrix and then re-welding the casing which if done carefully shows no signs of the removal.

As Tom (TomK1300S) has shown, there is research being done to establish a non-invasive test to determine if the cat has been removed from cars.  Most testers claim that the emissions go down when the cat is removed!!

For those who fit an Akra silencer to their bike, they lose the cat. For others, like me, who fit a BMW Akra, we get to keep( ) the cat.

Also, in UK, there is no noise meter used in the annual test, it is simply down to the ear of the tester.

To be honest, despite lots to moan about, bikers in Britain don't really know how lucky they are 

Looking forward to hearing the results of your on-road testing.

[tmccusker]

Interesting Phmode - I left about 21 years ago and it was not too different then. There are some states in the US which are ultra strict.

On the clunking - I did the rebuild late this afternoon and thought of another possible issue. On the rebuild, I could not get the slave cylinder to seat properly - due to the push rod not want to seat in the thrust bearing (which it all did before I put the cover on....). But it occurred to me that, even with the rod & thrust properly seated, that if the slave is not set up correctly, the rod and thrust can bounce around and make clunking noises.
Before I did the rebuild today, I did a complete flush of the slave hydraulics (ugly) and bled the best I could.

After today's rebuild, with the wheel & final drive all still installed, I ran the bike up through the gears and most of the clunking had gone, still a bit in 6th gear - but the only change was the hydraulic oil change out and working the clutch leaver - probably fully seating the thrust/ push rod. I'll hopefully have it on the road tomorrow to test under load and hopefully run in the various changes and new components - after that I'll look to get a couple of photos for those interested.
(Strange enough I had a call from my brother in law in Scotland today (k1200s) - he has to replace his clutch plates and slave and was asking if I new much about it - the answer was of course absolutely not but I said I could tell him what may possibly go wrong!!! - Tom

[Phmode]

 

Tell your brother-in-law to get himself in here and then we can help him out/laugh at his misfortunes etc! He may want to look at the Barnet clutch kit when he does the work. It's in the Technical section somewhere.

I think there will always be a problem with the drive hunting and shunting when running off-load in the higher gears.

It's interesting that your clutch fluid was so crappy; just shows why Tom (L) doesn't trust dealer techs (or anyone else come to that) to work on his bikes.

[tmccusker]

Managed a 10 mile test ride today - all sounds great, no clanging, all gears pretty smooth, clutch is working better than ever.. Remembering that the beginning of all this was the the fact I've had no 2nd gear for 34k miles - it's great to have it back - just need to re-train that left big toe to stop double gearing from first to third.

I'll clean it all up, flush the brakes etc. and get some of the strip down/ build pictures posted - I'm sure everyone has seen clutches replaced but the visible  transmission damage may be of interest - Give me a day or two to figure out the right process to upload/ make these available - again thanks for all the input - Tom

[Phmode]

Good result Tom!

Was the lack of 2nd gear the reason you had the undercut done?

[tmccusker]

Yes, it would not stay in gear if any power/ torque was applied - once finished I'll post a picture of the damaged fork and the damage to the gear faces.
R&D Motorsports repaired (after comprehensive die pen inspection of the complete gear set), and did the undercut machining on all the engagement dogs, new shifter fork and seals for around $1850 - with about three weeks from sending off to receiving back. You can now feel the gear "wanting" to engage. Had lots of before and after pics but seem to have lost the after pictures somewhere.
The transmission was the basis for doing all the other work whilst it was all apart - Tom

[tmccusker]

Hi All
If there is anyone left watching the thread, I have now managed to get a couple of the many photos loaded. More if anyone want to see.

Re-cap
K2008GT Transmission 2nd gear has been unusable for last 34k miles due to it bouncing out under load. Never fixed it as most of my commute is easily coped with as a 1st to 3rd shift - but it is a major issue once you use the bike for its real purpose - touring around biking roads.
Transmission was pulled and sent off to get the all but 1st engagement dogs machined and any other repairs (score marks, shifting forks. seals, etc.)
Whilst that was ongoing, it was a good time to do "stuff" given the bikes 57k miles so
Clutch change out, cam chain, cam sprocket, tensioners, runners and retainers all changed/ added.
Clearances checked (will need to go back in and close up the exhaust clearances soon), plugs changed, cooling fluid replaced, SLS valve reconnected, final drive oil & paste renewed, oil pump chain replaced, brake & clutch fluids flushed & replaced, fuel tank quick connect & hose replaced, fuel tank activated charcoal filter removed, all gaskets disturbed were replace (including the 18 bolts that hold on the clutch cover) plus some other minor "bits".
Bike tested on center stand and road tested - all running great - very minor oil leak on from rhs of cam cover gasket which is only there when on center stand (not side stand - I can live with that)

Appreciate all your inputs and support - now looking to see what fails next - suspect the electronic  suspension must be due for a failure!

Some pictures below - Tom McC

1 Engagement Dogs Prior to Machining - I somehow lost the pictures of the final cuts, but it was a very subtle angle which makes the dogs "grab" the gear as opposed to slide in & out easily.

2 2nd Gear face damage  - note the scored face on the middle - 2nd gear -  in picture where shifter fork operates)


3 Damaged 2nd gear fork - none of the other forks were in similar condition, but the second gear "popping" did cause very minor teeth damage and other bits & pieces.


4 First Friction Plate - side running on basket Face - Hmm, another month and it would have been a replacement clutch package @ $1300.


5 First Friction Plate - side not running against Basket Face (note that all the other friction plates look good, but the amount of friction pad sludge probably from that first plate) was very high. The whole compartment required a good clean down. Emphasises  the importance of oil/ filter changes.


6 Original Laminar Package with Green Bands


7 Clutch Cage Tab wear - another well documented issue whereas the tabs evenually wear the cage and over time make plate movement difficult.


8 Barnett Clutch showing tab orientation one way and one way only I found - tabs with notch, which is not in the center of the tab, must have the notch lesser side in the ACW orientations

[Phmode]

Great piccies Tom and we do love our piccies in here

That first plate issue in the clutch pack is well weird. I wonder what causes it to run out of true like that?

The other really weird thing is why the cam cover leaks when it is on centre stand. No leak when it is on the road?

If you want to preempt a common front ESA failure, there is a replacement loom available from dealers; the wires in the old one tend to crack and the front stops working but gives no fault code. From memory, the GS911 will show it as open circuit but can't remember for sure.

[tmccusker]

Thanks Phmode
When the bike is on the side stand (angled down on the LHS) or rolling (oil is "flowing"), there is no pooling of oil in that RHS corner of the cam cover, on the center stand, the oil will pool, allowing the gasket leak to be fed - after a week of running on the road and leaving on the side stand with no oil, I was surprised to see it, but that is the only explanation I can think of.

In the photo for the Barnett clutch pack, the pack had not as yet been torqued up (to the 190n-m) - so the outer ring seems to be hanging there a bit - once it was nipped up, it was all well placed in the basket/ cage. The fact is they could not be inserted turned around with the tab bias CW - I didn't spend too much time trying to figure it all out, but it looks as though (however it's been devised) they want a certain face of the friction plate facing out the way.

Appreciate the heads up on the loom - I'm already getting spurious failures on the GS911 for how the rear shock is operating - It could very well be the loom. The big issue here in Houston is the summertime ambient temperature and rush hour traffic. I've been stuck at stop start conditions (no airflow cooling apart from the fan) on a freeway @ 105F for an hour - in these conditions the wire and plastics all deteriorate quickly, particularly when exposed to the sun - not to mention the rider deterioration, particularly with full kit on!!

Thanks Again  - Tom

[Phmode]

Good luck with the rear ESA if it is the looms or the connectors 

All the plugs and sockets for the unit are behind the main frame on the left hand side above the rider's footrest.

How (or why) they managed to get them all in there with so little play in the cables is beyond me; universally jointed, long and very thin, strong fingers are the order of the day.

There are captive sockets and a few plastic covered, captive cable ties in there as well. I found a small inspection mirror very useful indeed.

Brian

[TomL]

I think that the common fault with friction material wear on the first plate is down to the lack of oil fed to the first plate through the hub. On my K1200S I did experiment by drilling extra oil holes through the hub to feed the inner plate. Didn't get to see if it worked because I traded the bike.

If I feel inclined I will remove the clutch on the K1300S to see if the wear on the inner plate is still a problem. Will the hub require some extra holes drilling? Trouble is that the clutch plates are only available as a full pack. I suppose that if done early enough the plates can be shuffled.

[tmccusker]

Thanks TomL
I've been following fourhundred4 on his coming to grips with the problems. I did intend to make the upgrades but this is what I found on my basket - lots of holes (pictures below!) Also considered the clutch activation spindle as the bike had only one wide slot cut down - so no changes this time around - given the bike has seen 57k miles a lot of it in commuter-land, the only disappointment was the other friction plates were not worn.

I think I'll consider two approaches - "juggle/shuffle" the clutch pack up every 20k miles or so - this could be done in an hour, not costly (if you ignore the bolt replacement - which I did last week) - giving some evenness of wear.
I did not want to get another slot in the activation rod as this would increase the oil flow without know where that oil is being taken away from - so I may research looking at the oil pump sprocket and changing that for a "faster" rotation and hence more volume of oil - I assume the pump could take an increase of 10% flow.
But all for another time. Photos below (note - there are plenty of photos).

Clutch Activation Rod


Clutch Basket Lub Holes - 0-360degrees