The end is in sight!

[black-k1]

Following on from the "What bike next" thread, and not wanting to hijack that, I thought I'd kick this one off.

I'm sad to say the end of my K ownership is in sight. After 11 years (K1200S - 5 years, K1300S Sport - 3 years, K1300S Motorsport - 3 years) and around 175,000 miles, I've now officially started the search for the replacement. The decision before November and the replacement will arrive in March next year.

While no bike can be "perfect", the K1300 came the closest I have ever been to the ideal compromise. Performance, comfort, (relative) economy, luggage and useful extras, all with a quiet, confident understated style, ticked more boxes than any other bike. Even now I believe it hasn't been bettered but BMW, in their "infinite wisdom" have killed off both the bike, and the ethos that creates such a bike. I'm now left with looking at, what I believe are lesser alternatives. I hope, in that belief, I'm wrong.

The players in the game are:

1. KTM 1290 SuperDuke GT
2. Kawasaki H2 SX SE
3. Kawasaki ZZR1400
4, BMW S1000XR.

If this were a horse race then, having only ridden two of the bikes some time ago (the ZZR and the XR) then the commentary would be saying "The KTM has the lead by a short head from the H2 SX with the ZZR 2 lengths behind and the XR trailing another 3 lengths behind that"

I know the XR has been improved since I last rode it so it may have some legs yet.

My first test ride is booked on Thursday (the XR) and I'll keep this thread updated with my thoughts and deliberations over the next 6 to eight weeks as I prepare to put my money where my mouth is!

PS Were there a 150 - 160bhp R1200RS then that would be right up there but while large twins from other manufacturers push towards 180+bhp BMW can't even get near 140bhp.

[Phmode]

Sad days indeed David.

Whilst I would find the lesser power of the R series a serious stumbling block, have you compared the power to weight ratios as the outright power is always relative.

I guess, in the real world, the roll-on acceleration times in gears is what counts.

You will have a lot of interested followers on this thread, that's for sure.

[Bruno]

David, like Brian I await your views/observations with interest.

[black-k1]

A fair challenge on ptw ratios.  Here are the basic numbers from the internet to give an idea.

Bike	BHP	Kg	Ratio
K1300S	175	254	0.688976378
KTM	173	212	0.816037736
H2 SX	197	260	0.757692308
ZZR	200	269	0.743494424
XR	160	228	0.701754386
R1200RS	127	236	0.538135593

I included the R1200RS just to show how much it's out of its league with the logical competition. It's not even in the same ball park. 

I'm am surprised that the XR betters the K1300S although torque is the real story and the XR is completely out done there. As the Americans used to say, "there ain't no substitute for cubes."

From a pure specification perspective the KTM has this with ease.  Almost 40kg lighter than the K1300S,  with pretty much the same power, and, being a twin, should have LOTS of uasble torque. Let's see what the test rides say.

[Swindon Andy]

Good luck. But a twin? Keep us posted, very interested.

[richtea]

From just the figures, the KTM looks the way to go - similar power, but lighter.
Extra power + increased weight is the wrong way for the 'sports' part of a sports tourer, IMHO.

Will be fascinating, David. You're doing what many of us will be doing in the next few years, so I'm sure it will make very interesting and useful writeups.
Thanks...

[Phmode]

The MCN guys have some interesting insights into the KTM GT...

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/fleet16/ktm-1290-super-duke-gt/

[TomK1300s]

Well I sold my 1300S and got the KTM1290GT in 2016, its just two years old in September and I can tell you there is not much that comes close to it for all types of riding, if you want acceleration, torque, Power, handling, this bike has it all and more, I am 6'2" and find it very comfortable on long rides, along with that the seat height is lower than most other bikes with that size engine,
The KTM 1290 engine was designed as a 200 BHP power unit, after riding the bike the designer along with one of the top men at KTM told them to reduce the output to 175 BHP and at this it was still frightening to ride without the TC switched on, before taking on the 1290GT I test road  Kawasaki H2 SX SE, Kawasaki ZZR1400,  BMW S1000XR,  Ducati Multistrada, BMW R1200GS, KTM 1290 ADV and BMW 1000RR, and the KTM GT is without doubt the best,
I ride a 2015 BMW R1200RT along with the KTM and can tell you that both are great touring bikes but the KTM is lots more fun to ride.

[black-k1]

Thanks for that Tom. It matches other things I've heard about the KTM and I hope, proves me wrong in my belief that the K1300S can't be bettered.

Although, I doubt you tested the H2 SX SE two years ago as it was only launched this summer. Perhaps you tested the Versys 1000 (or whatever the non-supercharged model is called now)?

[TomK1300s]

You are correct it wasn't the H2 but I did have a Versys for twelve months, good bike but nothing special, the Kawasaki was the 1000 SX.
Here's the GT at Lands End a run there and back in the same day from Manchester, and the photographer put the wrong mileage on the sign it should read 368 miles not 268.

[Perbunan]

Black-k1 can't you throw the 1250 Multi-strada into the test ride mix? As it's supposed to be a bike for all occasions and also on my list of potential next bikes....

[peterwbaker]

I'll be having the same dilemma in 2019 so please keep us updated. 

The GS 1250 is on the way within a few weeks I think and that will roll down to the RS too I guess within a year.  I've seen reports the current R1200 can be mapped to pretty much 140ps so if the 1250 comes with that as standard I'm guessing it should be able to get over 150ps with a remap.  If they put a decent faring/screen on the RS and get rid of the crappy black and white LCD that is the route I would look to.  Peter

[black-k1]

The multistrada was on the "top ten" list of possibilities but didn't make the top 4. The looks/style don't work for me and the Ducati reliability issues of old still sit in the back of my mind.  Probably very unfair,  especially after 11 years of K ownership, but those "unfounded" nagging doubts made it about number 6 or 7 on my list.

I know there are rumours of the probability of the new boxer engine making it into a R1250RS but it's still less than 140bhp until someone can actually show otherwise and it's not here now to be test ridden. Even at 150bhp it would only scrape ahead of the XR  so would still be some way behind the others.  (At least on paper.)

[stevel]

It’s amazing that you’re all looking at top end power figures here, so the only characteristic you’re comparing is how much power it makes around the redline. The boxer engine makes so much more torque so much quicker that in the real world it has more useable power from far lower in the rev range, and accelerates almost as quickly as a K1300. Of course, you have to put up with the vibration with the boxer, and (according to some forums) an even thinner paint job than you find on a K13 engine...

[black-k1]

As power is simply a multiple of torque x revs then by looking at power, we're also looking at torque. Modern large capacity motorcycle engines tend to have reasonably flat torque curves making it pretty easy to mask slightly lower torque outputs with lower gearing giving the same level of "thrust" at the rear wheel. This is how the naturally asperated 1000cc XR gives similar or better off the line, through the gears and roll-on performance to bikes with significantly larger engines and a much higher headline torque figure.

The current RS boxer engine produces around 124NM peak torque. That's not that impressive in the company mentioned:

K1300S - 140NM
KTM - 144NM
H2 SX - 137
ZZR1400 - 158
XR - 112

All the bikes have a pretty linear torque delivery across the rev range so should have pretty much the same ability to pull any gear at any speed.

I think boxer owners talk about riding the torque rather than chasing the power, not because the boxer engine has any more torque, but because there is no power to chase. (When comparing like for like capacity engines)