Who do you reckon will be the first member to get the Covid jab...

[Phmode]

Blimey Ron! I knew you would be up there somewhere but if you have had your second Covid jab, when was your first?

[raesewell]

Three weeks ago? 

[Phmode]

As said Brian, I agree with much of what you have said but I still have sympathy for the protesters.

The under 25's are not a threat to society either. IF (and it's a very big if) they are carrying a virus then the virus is the threat. All are being treated as a threat when, in reality, it's actually a very small proportion that might be. Less than 5% if the "official estimated infection rate" is to be believed. So, like the moves to remove motorcycling from society (being achieved through complex and expensive testing choking of the supply of new bikers), the under 25 group in particular, is being locked-down to protect it from itself.

I'll point out that you willingly chose to give up your civil liberties, and received a good wage in the process.  That's very different to being told you have to give up your civil liberties and that you'll have to survive on Universal Credit if you're entitled to it. I personally know of 3 under 25's who have had their own business for less than two years, have worked really hard to get the business going, invested everything they had in the business, but are now f**ked because they're not entitled to a single penny. That really is a very bitter pill to swallow.

I've never heard anyone say my Mum died of anything but it was worth it to protect our civil liberties, but I have heard it said that many died so that we can have these civil liberties therefor, they are worth protecting, ultimately, with peoples lives if that is deemed necessary. (Which I don't think it is at the moment but I don't deny the right of others to think differently.)

I am very aware as someone rapidly approaching retirement, financially comfortable and looking forward to a reasonably comfortable pension, I can "take the hit", at least in the short term. Lot's of people are in a very different position, where financial uncertainty is likely to be perceived as as much of a risk to health and well being as COVID.

As someone who works with the NHS and is married to a practicing nurse, who is also a department manager in the local hospital, I am all to aware of the pressures on key workers. However, the pressures on other elements of society may be different, but they are no less intense.

And ...

Congratulations Philip.

I need to be clear. No-one, especially me, is moaning about the younger elements of society having a whinge and a moan and I would be up in arms (careful here, seeing as the US almost is) were I in their position. I haven't seen or heard of any of those who have been totally disenfranchised, breaking the law and gathering in groups and protesting.

I am having a go at those who are actively breaking the law and gathering in groups in Parliament Square and elsewhere to protest, not about the hardship and suffering, but about not being allowed to gather in groups and protest. That is the 'civil liberties' they are protesting about. And they should be shot, as Attila would say. Despite gunpowder not having been invented yet 

[chriscanning]

I also know someone who has had 2 jabs the second was yesterday, the down side is it’s official conformation that they think you're close to the Exit door  and I don’t mean the one in the surgery....

[black-k1]

I am having a go at those who are actively breaking the law and gathering in groups in Parliament Square and elsewhere to protest, not about the hardship and suffering, but about not being allowed to gather in groups and protest. That is the 'civil liberties' they are protesting about. And they should be shot, as Attila would say. Despite gunpowder not having been invented yet 

Again. I agree in the main but I'm even more cynical than I was previously about the "presentation" of such events by the media and how much of the protest is as "illegal" as is suggested. My step daughter is 25 and appeared on the London local TV news a one of the law breaking revelers on New Years Eve. She and her two house mates walked into town, partially as exercise and paritailly to relieve the boredom. She said there were other people there but everyone was being well behaved and all were observing social distancing until ... the police started "kettling" them into one small area, which is where she was filmed. They didn't want to be that close to others but were given no choice.

The police kept them all kettled for over an hour before letting them out a few at a time.

Should they have been out? Possibly not! Was it the crime of the century? I'll let you decide! Were they a danger to others? Definitely not until they were forced into a position where they had to stand shoulder to shoulder with strangers. What was shown to the public? A group of inconsiderate, selfish no-goods!

If only she had chosen to drive to Barnard Castle instead!!!

[chriscanning]

As per the phone conversation I had yesterday, things could be a lot worse....good job we don’t have to fight another war cuz the current population has no effing discipline what so ever.

[Matt]

Well they were pretty good at beating discipline into new recruits after the war started I think .

In actuality they found in ww1 that many of the poor buggers in the trenches weren't very motivated to fight as they had nothing to fight for. It was one of the motivations for the start of council House building in 1919. Give people something to fight for .

I like history .

Anyway, my mother has some complicated autoimmune thing going on as a result of the 70's approach to solving hay-fever, so she can't have the jab. At least not until they're more confident on side effects.

[Costas]

I jumped two rungs up our schedule ladder two days ago, on my 55th birthday. On saying that, I'm happy to wait as there are others that need it before me.

Exactly the same allocation here.
Still covid free after test no 6.

[drumwrecker]

Had my second jab 7th Jan 2021. They said they decided to carry on as planned and fulfil all appointments.
My cousins daughter works as a GP nurse in North Yorkshire and she had the job or organising all the jabbing. They had the prospect of notifying 1000 people their second jab is cancelled. They worked out that the time and hassle of doing that just wasn't justifiable so they carried on with the second jabs.
Another two weeks and I hope to be Covid proof, whether I can become a carrier is unknown so life will carry on much the same me.

[raesewell]

Out of interest Ron, did you have any side effects, headache, nausea or anything else?

[chriscanning]

Interesting because even with 2 jabs their only talking 85% against catching it again...

If you were going to buy a bike and they said reliability was 85% would you buy it...oh hang on I bought a K 

[richtea]

The point about the 85% figure is that the R number then comes down way below 1.0, and therefore your 15% chance of catching it is vastly reduced because instead of ~200k+ people being infective there will only be a few thousand. And statisically you'd be very unlucky to meet them.

The second bonus is the hospitals will no longer be full, so you'll get top NHS support, should you be unlucky enough to catch it.

And in terms of being a carrier, Ron, you won't be any more dangerous than an unvaccined person - or the vaccine would be doing more damage than good.
But you're right, you'll probably have to keep doing the mask & distancing, if only to stop naffing the rest of the country off!

My logic says once the vulnerable and NHS staff are vaccinated (plus 10-14 days), the lockdown will ease because the death rate will drop right down. But we've got about 1-2 more weeks of horrendous death rates - the Xmas 'gift' - before things look slightly less scary. March I reckon - but start or end of?

[Matt]

Good words young man. But it gave me a horror flash forward to morons going about without masks shouting "I'm fine I've had the jab!" and ensuing punchups. And ultra annoying repeated news articles about it.

[black-k1]

It's also worth noting that post jab, the impact of catching it is significantly reduced.

[richtea]

Correct - in terms of numbers/risk, vaccinated people could go around maskless with little risk to themselves or others.
But that would open a whole kettle of unshipped Scottish fish.

Oh, and then anti-vaxxers would then pretend they've had the vaccine and go maskless.

So we're all in it together but the end of the tunnel is in sight now, and it looks like this (in my lockdown head):