Nice Ride on the K13 Nice I have ext Warranty

[JackSnipe]

The ESA problem was down to a faulty handlebar switch. New one replaced under ext warranty. Until bikers start buying more with their heads and seemingly  less on their Ego's(Of course there are exceptions) BM will continue to charge a premium for shoddy goods. I can within reason buy any current new bike from all the big manufacturers (I draw the line at the Honda RGV) but would not waste my hard earned on another BM until they make great improvements. What is it with this make and its buyers who the hell wants an adventure bike like the monstrous GS Adventurer dragging Pickford esque side Pods and Top Box round, knocking hell out of the engine and the transmission with  quick shifters, why on a road bike have a quick shifter, it will not improve your bike riding and could seriously damage these delicate machines ?  It may give a buzz as its whips up and down the box but it will not add a chot to corner speed or safety for that matter. It is a gimmick best left to the racers who are nailing their bikes remorselessly. I do not make these comments to be deliberately controversial I genuinely believe BM as a marque have lost their way and will not be encouraged to be more grounded and provide better value for money until the consumer starts to bite them in the behind.

JS

[Costas]

Good news after all, what was leaking?

[Phmode]

We may never know 

[Phmode]

C'mon Simon!

Cars of all shapes and sizes have had 'quick-shifters' for years with no adverse effects whatsoever! It definitely improves my riding, mainly by the negligible time for which the power is off as opposed to pulling the clutch and closing the throttle or even clutchless up-shifting! It has transformed my appreciation of the turbine-like power delivery of my 13 too. Now, if only it did it on the down-shifts as well! Most manufacturers claim that the quick-shifters are way kinder to clutches (cos they don't touch them) and transmissions than the average user and I'm sure bikers are little different to drivers in this respect!

As for who 'wants' an adventure bike, hell, more than want a Burg or a K or almost any other bike on the planet. Now, as for who 'needs' one, about three guys and one girl at the last count but since when has need been the rationale for buying a bike, rather than want?

As for the rest of your rant'ette, my views on the quality of BM's latest products are well-known and endlessly documented in here but nothing is going to change because BMW have found a niche demographic who can either afford the problems and may even know no better, or are weekend warriors with more testosterone than sense and who change their bike every year to match their new garish leathers!

When they, like the new slimline you and me, are still too porky to wear leathers they may also have gained some sense, but it will be too late by then.

But, don't forget, the marque is the only one I know who offers a rock-solid warranty almost for as long as you will need it unless you are an intergalactic mile-muncher! Now whether that is because they know the bikes need it or because it makes sound financial sense really doesn't matter!

For sure, the 7 year old 'designers' and the greedy bean counters have taken over the asylum, replacing the real engineers and businessmen of old.

Apart from that I thought it was a well-balanced assessment 

[JackSnipe]

Brian, It is always good to "Hear the other side of the argument" you like quick shifters I do not for me they would add precious little to my love of the MC, clearly for you it does, good. All that being said my greater admiration is not the love you have for the quick shifter but your keeness to have your say not being afraid to nail your  colours to the mast but acknowledge other views (quirkinness if you like) as far as the smear goes to answer the question as posed by Costas currently the Jury is out, tomorrow the top boy of the dealership is out on the bike for a blast as todate they have found no errant seal anywhere. Service manager phoned me up this pm and asked me about my cleaning/ spraying/drying regime and we both agreed there was nothing untoward that could have led to the smear in that respect. Time will tell hopefully,

JS

[Costas]

Hm mm , switch changed but bike remained for further checks. What suspiciously for the verdict.

[JackSnipe]

No leaking oil/fluids anywhere after both thorough physical and visual and road test check by very good dealer. We have put it down to perhaps a touch of Autoglymn Polish or F365 getting smeared around a little (I do use same but not on the wheels) and attracting the very fine rear brake dust. Dealer states pads on this model are fairly soft and do dust up a little. All that being said apart from low speed manouvering I use the rear brake very little apart from when the anchor is thrown out for max retardation and steadying the bike.

But this bike has had 3 Handlebar switches on its left side and 2 on its right side, in a word CRAP !

JS

[Costas]

Sorry to say that but it's simply a dealers fack up by not checking switches  s/n , it apears he is just recycling switches on the system. It happened before again in UK., there are many posts for that same issue with exactly that outcome.

[Timbox]

No leaking oil/fluids anywhere after both thorough physical and visual and road test check by very good dealer. We have put it down to perhaps a touch of Autoglymn Polish or F365 getting smeared around a little (I do use same but not on the wheels) and attracting the very fine rear brake dust. Dealer states pads on this model are fairly soft and do dust up a little. All that being said apart from low speed manouvering I use the rear brake very little apart from when the anchor is thrown out for max retardation and steadying the bike.

But this bike has had 3 Handlebar switches on its left side and 2 on its right side, in a word CRAP !

JS

You use the rear brake every time you brake, they are linked.

[richtea]

We have put it down to perhaps a touch of Autoglymn Polish or F365 getting smeared around a little (I do use same but not on the wheels) and attracting the very fine rear brake dust.

Ah, I can see your mistake. Cleaning it. That'll teach you.

My ha'penny-worth on quick shifters:
- pointless but after 2+ years I do now usually use it. When I got on the XR demo I tried a week or so back, it wouldn't change up. Kick kick, Ohhhh. Need to pull the clutch in...

I don't use it for speed as such, just as a 'cleaner' way to get up the box to 5th or 6th.
I think that probably means it makes me a lazier rider, not a better rider.

[Phmode]

I think the whole snicking slickly through the 13 box thing at normal speeds, whilst not spilling the coffee in my left hand, is a huge boon! On the 12, I'm normally covered in coffee by the time I get into 3rd 

[JackSnipe]

Timbox, Yes the good old EVO Brakes, the bias must be quite subtle and in fairness because I have spent more time sorting this BM out than riding it I have not got to the point where I know the bike inside out. I like to take my time getting to learn about how a new to me bike handles and I am not curretly at this point with the BM as a consequence of niggle sorting (and some bigger niggles to boot) Back to Richtea and the Quick shifter my critism of same is A. Pointless kit for road bike. B. As BM gearbox's are  clunky delicate darlings and if the Kill Delay timing is out on QS some major grief is likely. C. They sound horrible in use and far from slick, heard one on a GS the other day (Why have one on a bike like that ?) and a Swedish Ref hearing same on a football pitch would red card you !

JS

[Phmode]

Sounds 'orrible! You obviously haven't followed a 13S with shift assist and an Akropovic silencer at full chat. That sound alone is worth the money unless you are one of those weirdos who prefers silent warp drive bikes. I remember TomL's comment on first using his when he changed the 12 for the 13. Pure hooligan fun and you might as well enjoy it before the new Little England H&S guys outlaw it. Mind, even Tom said it was a little tooooo much with the dB killer removed. With it in, it is a gorgeous muted sound that gives a lovely 'POP' as the engine comes back on song after the ignition cut.

In Spain last year I was tail-end Charlie to a whole string of K13'S's, all with SA and the orchestral manoeuvres were something else as they all went rapidly up the boxes on full-bore acceleration until it got to my K12S and my clutchless upshifts which just ruined the whole musical piece 

I've never heard of the K13 box being delicate. The box only clunks going into first and with SA it is as smooth and silent as, well, a smooth and silent thing!

I think a road bike is the perfect home for a quick shifter. No more disturbance to the drive as you change up. No more having to debate whether to change up before or after that bend up ahead; you just tip it in and snick the lever up when you want to, bend, no bend, wet, dry and the contact patch never even notices the change. Perfection. And if you do ride like a granny, and we all do at times, then the clutch works just as well as it ever did, barring the jarring and embarrassing first gear engagement.

Of course, if you ride like a granny at all times, as some prefer to do, then it doesn't really work at all well and gets confused easily. It really works best if you simply pin the throttle and let the SA do what it does best.

For my part, I've never heard a GS using SA so can't comment but the power pulses on a big twin, and therefore the lack of them when you pull the clutch, must disturb the contact patch more than a relatively silky and much more powerful in-line four. And again, I don't know what 'need' has to do with anything. Let's face it, only three of us 'need' a motorcycle, the rest just want one! Or two! Or three!!

As for me, I find myself holding the shift as I soar past a slower vehicle and then 'popping' the change just as I pass them so they get the full benefit of the 'pop' through the Akrapovic 

Brian (who is delighted to find there is still a little of the hooligan left in him at his time of life  )