EuroKClub
General forum area => The Euro K Comms & Sat Nav Corner (including Trackers) => Topic started by: Phmode on February 26, 2023, 05:47:07 pm
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So, having decided never to rely on a Garmin device ever again (don't ask, it's way too boring) and having never worked out how my TomTom works, I was left with only the smart phone route.
I decided to go with MyRoute app Navigation and once MRA have finished building it I'm sure it will be wonderful.
Of course, I then had to buy an old phone cos I don't want to wreck my real one but eBay was my friend.
Then I had to sell a kidney (again ebay to the rescue) to buy new mounts for the bikes and the car. QuadLock to the rescue this time.
And then the real obstacle popped up on the horizon. Having been out on the bike last week it suddenly dawned on me that new phones need new tech to be able to operate them with gloves on. I am already suffering with this with the iPad when I am out stargazing and navigating the heavens which is way easier than navigating the roads. I have some really warm shooting gloves which have roll back trigger finger ends and that works well for touch screen use on freezing winter nights but they are about as much use as a chocolate teapot on a bike.
I can't be the first etc. etc. and lo, it turns out I am not...
https://www.oxfordproducts.com/motorcycle/brands/oxford/rider_wear/gloves/oxford_smartfingers/
...and so a bundle are winging their way as we speak.
Other 'nano-technology' paint solutions are available but I decided to go old-school. More anon!
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Excellent! We're both doing the same thing.
I jumped the Garmi and Tomtom steps and went straight to smartphone + QuadLock + MRA + touch-sensitive finger gloves.
Trouble is the touch-sensitive gloves are summer ones. And it's February.
What I am missing are waterproof / winter gloves with touch sensitivity, so I'll be very interested to see how your Oxford smart fingers work.
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I've gone the Quadlock route as well having given up on Garmin, I run WAZE which for day to day routing is excellent! I also find the user contributed alerts are brilliant. Once an alert stop me finding a scaffolding plank the hard way on the M25.
Reference operating the phone with gloves, I guess it depends on whether its Iphone or Android but I hit the same problem using the Quadlock water resistant "cover", on android you can tweak the screen sensitivity which solved the problem for me. Maybe I just have dainty little fingers!
One word of warning in case you hadn't heard. If you are using the Quadlock be careful if you are using an Iphone. If you don't buy the Quadlock anti vibration mount the vibration can destroy the camera auto focus, very expensive with the risk of warranties being voided. Initially I wasn't sure if this was just an internet myth but as far as I can tell it is true. Not totally sure if Android phones like my S20 are susceptible, there doesn't seem so much info about them but I bought the vibration mount just to be safe.
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I have the anti-vibe mount on the bike with the weatherproof charging head so I'm good to go.
I bought the rain hood for the iPhone SE but it turns out the phone is waterproof. I also bought the screen mount and charging head ordinaire for the car. It doesn't need the anti-vibe mount. I'm not sure the bike does either to be honest. There is a problem but it is more about off road bikes. And then, just to be sure, I bought a second hand iPhone SE to use exclusively on the bike and in the car, no SIM to keep things simple.
I've had a few 'interesting' journeys using MRA nav. Asked it to take me to Halesowen in the car to get it serviced and it all looked so good. It kept telling me to turn round but I figured that was because it was taking me via the M50 and I was going into Malvern to call in at B&Q. However, when I caught some traffic and took a look at the display MRA was trying to take me to somewhere 1300km away in Holland; well, MRA is a Dutch outfit...
I did a reset at B&Q and it worked fine until I got to the dealers when it kindly informed me that I reached my destination. Well, sort of, except it was on the other side of a dual-carriageway with no pass-through. At that point the screen stopped scrolling and I drove on right off the top of the phone...
Then, on the way home it kept telling me to leave at every junction on the motorway and back to the dealers before eventually relenting and taking me home. Two blue lines on the M/way ahead, one going round the roundabout and back and the other going straight on.
I also asked it to take me to a foodie night at a local brewery on a hop farm about 8 miles away down some truly wibbly bits. I had been there with a neighbour as a passenger in his car so 'sort' of knew the way but wanted to see what the nav did. Well, it knew a shortcut missing out the local village and I'm lucky the suspension is still attached to the car. It did say 'Not suitable for HGV's' but the A3 hardly counts as big...I measured it when I came home and it was 10 metres shorter but I reckon it takes about a week longer ::)
There is currently no route selection facility in MRA nav, only avoidances, so you can't choose shortest or fastest, neither of which I ever want to use. 99% of the time I am either following a pre-plotted route or I want it to take me the obvious way, but neither Garmin nor TomTom have an 'Obvious' button.
The new version of the MRA nav is in Beta testing at the moment and although I'm on the tester list I just haven't had time to get involved.
As far as finding destinations etc. in a search, it is every bit as good as the Garmin XT so I'm hoping the real version will be as good.
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You can always fall back on Google Maps, Brian. Even on an iPhone.
[EDIT: if you hook it up to your other phone for data]
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Oh god I can see me wanting to try this out now! If the touchy fingers make it all easy then I've little excuse.
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Well, there is no need for data because MRA nav has all the maps downloaded onto the non-phone foc (and onto my real phone and my iPad) so if I get 'lost' then it is my fault. Even without the nav function, the screen shows me where I am so using it as a plain old map with a 'you are here' pin will do in a squeeze.
I am mainly using the non-phone to run CamerAlert from PocketGPSWorldGPSPocketwotsit. It doesn't show the map detail without data but it does show the upcoming cameras which is more than the Garmin XT did. At the moment I am struggling to get the non-phone to run both MRA and CamerAlert at the same time.
I may end up running both the real phone running CamerAlert using it's data (as well as using the phone function) and the non-phone running the MRA nav. But that sort of complicates things and still means I am risking my real phone.
I am also in the process of updating the helmet. I am probably going to go to a Schuberth C3 Pro (currently on an original C3 which is probably going to the science museum as an historic exhibit).
I would have loved to do away with the Sena and fit the Schuberth SRC-System Pro to the helmet but they stopped making them after Pontius the Pilot retired. There was one on eBay yesterday but I missed it so if anyone has one they don't want, I'm in the market...
And then there will be a fire-sale of the Garmin XT, the TomTom Rider 400 and the Sena20S. Or perhaps just a fire... :)
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> CamerAlert from PocketGPSWorldGPSPocketwotsit
Not sure this is maintained any more, in terms of recent camera locations. Rae may know.
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The database is updated at least weekly. Every time I use it it warns me that I am not using the latest database and I have to do a manual download.
There has been heavy roadworks on the A40 north of Gloucester for a couple of years and it warned me of the various and almost daily changes to the speed limits. And the thing still gets confused as to what the speed limit is now that the works have been completed.
And talking of Gloucester, anyone who fancies a last pint or three in The Air Balloon pub at the junction of the A417 and the A436...you (and I) have missed your chance. The place is now boarded up for good pending the bulldozers starting on the Nettleton By-Pass sometime, maybe never.
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After Cameralert stopped working with Android I switched to Speedtrap Alert which works with the PocketGPSworld database.
It's just a bit of a faff to download it, but it does work.
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There are times when I think those who stick to the speed limits have a much easier time of it... ;)
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There have been times when I thought that myself but I quickly dismissed the idea.
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I am also in the process of updating the helmet. I am probably going to go to a Schuberth C3 Pro (currently on an original C3 which is probably going to the science museum as an historic exhibit).
...
Slightly off topic - there are some very nice deals on carbon C3 Pros if you shop around.
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>After Cameralert stopped working with Android I switched to Speedtrap Alert which works with the PocketGPSworld database.
Yep, me too.
Speed trap alert Seems to play nicely with Waze and Google Maps on my phone, I'm off to try out MRA, isn't that one excellent for predetermined route following (say on a ride-out?...that is what none of the others seem to want to do, they all seem to me to want to try and reroute rather than follow a planned ride)
>There are times when I think those who stick to the speed limits have a much easier time of it... ;)
:thumbsup:
I have the occasional joy of riding through London, trying to hold to the 20mph limits there when all the locals ignore them because they know where the cameras are and stick on your rear number plate because they think you are winding them up, is no joy.
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Ah... lan, that's a shame! Last time I rode through London was... yeah about ten years ago. I somewhat enjoyed it then, was less stressful than the car when I was trying to find the right lane all the time.
I use the MRA planning side of things to make routes, or did last couple of years. As you say though, when we move those routes to our various TomTom Club and Garmins they all try to change it. It was not at all all good in the wordy rappinghood trying to sort that out!
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And further to my gloved finger-trouble on my phone, MRA have just announced this...
https://youtu.be/YH_JCfabwI0
...it is in English (eventually) with Dutch subtitles.
They are touting among the MRA Navigation Next Beta testers to see if there is enough interest to produce an MRA-specific version (flashier, neater and easier to integrate).
I have to say, I still miss the old Streetpilot 2820 (how is it going Steve?) which had integrated short-cut buttons a la BMW navigator sort of thing (but uselessly on the right of the screen (for US car drivers to use with their right hand)!
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Bit chunky. But then again with motorcycle gloves tha's probably necesssary. It also looks expensive to make.
There are alternatives, but more delicate and geared towards phone calls (unless you can config the buttons):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/TUNAI-Button-Media-Remote-Control-Black/dp/B07JQ8Q6X6
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Satechi-Bluetooth-Button-compatible-Samsung-Media/dp/B00RM75NL0
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Goshyda-Bluetooth-Waterproof-Smartphone-Controller-default/dp/B0BJ37K9S9
If we had a Bluetooth whizz-wheel we'd be sorted.
I'll code it if someone will make it. Oh, and we'll need a laywer to keep BMW at bay.
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If you didn't want chunky you would be happy with the touchy-freely screeny thingy...
I have this huge beef with nearly all modern automotive tech where you have to look to see which of a dozen identical buttons does what. Or at the anodyne screen to see where they have hidden the non-button thingy today.
When I was an apprentice and asked my instructor why the autopilot controls on the aircraft had a dozen weirdly shaped buttons instead of a row of neat little identical square or round ones he gave me a clout round the ear and told me to go figure. Then he poked me in both eyes and made me wear sexy chamois pilot's gloves and told me to go fondle.
In a pitch-black cockpit on a pitch-black night when all the panel lights were off so no-one could find you and kill you, it was obvious that as long as you were not an apprentice you would be able to tell what you were doing by feel. He said!
Give me the old days when 'controls' in cars (and on the odd bike that had any controls) were a mish-mash of pull this, push that, twist this, lift this and move that big thing to the left. Or right. Oh, and a reminder to tuck your thumb in, in case the starting handle kicked back.
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Agreed completely. I don't mind chunky, but not that many buttons. I'd want them closer to the grips too.
I would prefer a whizzwheel to buttons though, for the same reasons you give - i.e. you don't even need to feel button shape for a whizzwheel. But whizzwheel only gives you 4 directions (and 'Select' IIRC?). You might still need 2 or 3 buttons in addition to the whizwheel - maybe round where the horn is?
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Take a look here...
https://jaxeadv.com/barbuttons/compatible-applications/#htoc-m
...which is the gizmo shown in the MRA video AND it specifically states it is compatible with MRA Navigation Next Beta (which is what I am failing to test).
The BIG thing about big bar buttons is you do NOT need to take your eyes off the road to feel which button you want. A whizz wheel only does 'something' and you have to look at a screen to see what that is. Pushing the > button moves the screen shot of the map one screen to the right. Simples!
I do NOT want something I have to look at cos that split second is what will cause me to run right up your arse at high velocity :o
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Also...
...I just noticed that they do a set of kit instructions so Matt can 3D print a EuroKClub logo'd version and make them el cheapo for all of us ham-fisted gits 8)
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I'm in there - just requested a kit! Can't say no to a kit especially if you have to solder it. Takes me back to the ZX81, and re-soldering it.
It does require USB juice, spacers/some other way of mounting it etc, so its not quite slap it on, but it looks nicely designed.
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Me too! Too much of a deal to miss and too much fun for tinkerers methinks :)
I am mounting it in place of my Garmin. In other words on a RAM mount off the Hornig ball mount on the inner end of my left bar.
Wish I'd known you were on it, we could have done a multi-buy 8)
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C'mon Matt my boy, get the free kit and 3D print your way into the history books 8)
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Oh, and the Oxford Smart Glove thingies...
Folks on eBay were selling a card of 6 sticky thingies for £14+.
Bought mine through Amazon which had a picture of FOUR cards of 6 for £15+.
Arrived today, one card of 6.
Sent them back, complained to Amazon and instructed my solicitors.
Oh, and ordered cheaper version off honest sellers on eBay.
I'll wear them to solder the Arduino in place on my BarButton box...
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Happy to 3d print these if anyone wants one. There's probably scope for a K13S specific mod for mounting. I've also got a few of the Wemos C3 boards they use. Just need to get some button switches.
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C'mon Matt my boy, get the free kit and 3D print your way into the history books 8)
I'm still struggling to get my bum in gear to print the telescope :D.
I had a quick look at this thing. It looks fancy. How's it talking to the device, bluetooth? I'll have a proper look again when I'm home.
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Emulating a Bluetooth keyboard I think.
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Ah yes, makes sense! I was considering putting the s10 to use on the bike instead of TomTom, but as soon as I start thinking intercom plus phone plus bike my head hurts. I should drink more wine.
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Happy to 3d print these if anyone wants one. There's probably scope for a K13S specific mod for mounting. I've also got a few of the Wemos C3 boards they use. Just need to get some button switches.
That would be neat indeed.
I intend to replace the bar grip blocks which screw into the backplate of the button module, with the square plate RAM ball mount. That way I can have the whole unit floating above and just inboard of the left hand switch gear...ish!
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The man selling them says this about the mounting, if that's of help, Brian:
- The M4 mounting holes on the back are 32mm apart
Haven't the faintest what distance apart RAM mount bolts are, but that sounds like a good solution.
But how to attach the the bars? Do you have extra space due to the helibars?
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Yeah, we had that conversation before I revealed that you and I were joined at the EuroKHip.
The Sat nag mounting plate is a square steel plate on a RAM ball so I drill it to match the holes in the barbutton thingummy.
This...
https://www.motorcycleparts-hornig.com/BMW-K-1300-S/Navigation-and-Communication/GPS-Mounting.html
...goes in the inner end of the handlebar. Take off the bar end and rod it through to knock out the plastic bung in the inner end insert this and viola, a string instrument.
I have a handlebar diameter insert in the end of the right bar and my new QuadLock bar mount goes on that. Simples!
I'll send you piccies to your e-mail... ::)
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I've printed the front part of the case to get an idea of where/how it would fit on a K13S handlebars.
I've used ABS, which is always awkward to print, as I've found PLA goes brittle in sunlight. Has anyone tried this new PTEG stuff?
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Aah I've yet to and probably won't try ABS as the gases scare me off.
I'm a PLA man for the most part. I tried PETG briefly a few years ago when it first appeared, with some success but eventually gave up as I didn't need its properties.
I was tempted by the PLA hybrids, which I think add... Oh who knows, but in the end my recent batch which is intended for the above mentioned telescope is all PLA from... I think prusa. My printer is the i3 mk2 original Joseph Prusa one.
The only PLA thing I've left outside was a weird bird feeder I made some years back. Basically an Easter egg turned into wire frame type affair, with a hole in side and plate for... 5 seeds. That lasted OK actually, apart from squirrels eating parts and finally the tree surgeons smashing it to pieces.
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I've been a little distracted with other things, but have finally dug out the bag of C3's and 3d-printed a case. Has anyone else build / bought one yet?
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Bought, built, tested, wrote the test apps, and published them so you can test yours, Andy! ;D
Android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teazel.barbuttons_tester
Apple:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/barbuttons-tester/id6446374343
(http://www.poqit.com/barButtons0.jpg)
Lovely colours, eh? I've probably watched too much on-board Ducati MotoGP footage.
I've decided how to mount it - simply a cable tie + some neoprene padding. Not sure it will stay like that, but it seems the simplest method at the moment, and gets it the closest to the right handlebar:
(http://www.poqit.com/barButtons1.jpg)
(http://www.poqit.com/barButtons2.jpg)
Not actually tried the MRA beta app yet - only got the link this afternoon...
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That's cool Richard!
Does the cable tie get in the way of the C3 board though?
What are you planning for power supply? It's a 3.3v board, so I guess it will be happy with 5v from USB, not sure about 12v+ from the battery connector though.
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What's a C3 board? :(
I'm planning on being extremely lazy and plugging it into a small power bank, which (from testing the app) lasts about 2-3 days.
But if it all works and I like it, I may need to get a bit more serious.
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(https://i.ibb.co/0Bbdj14/IMG-3271.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YDsq7Jn)
(https://i.ibb.co/m066bR2/IMG-3272.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QkrrpJT)
C3 is the 'Arduino' board, though it's not actually an Arduino at all. I think it would sit better in the case upside down. Sorry to disappoint any KTM fans, but the final case won't be orange.
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Ah! I was racking my brains about which bit of the handlebars was called C3. Miles away. ;D
Nice colour! Go with it.
You'll need 5V, yes - 12V will pop. He has a couple of suggestions here: https://jaxeadv.com/barbuttons/barbuttons-faq/
His design (with the extra PCB) has the C3 facing up towards the buttons, but since you're doing your own button wiring I think it makes no difference.
The few things I thought about improving, but will never quite get round to:
- power supply cable. There's a USB socket on the C3 for power but his design is to solder the power connectors on. Not clear why - possibly just the space needed to house an incoming USB connector was a bit too much, but a 90 degree cable might fit in there.
- power cable routing. Two thoughts:
1) Exit hole is in the bottom of the case, but depending on your bike, exiting via the side might be better. For the K it turns out that the bottom is probably best anyway, but that was luck.
2) Better still, have the power cable exit between the two halves of the case (with a grommit to seal it against rain), and then you can break the case without have to piddle around with half of the case attached to the cable.
- the buttons. His are nice but the locking nut is quite weak, so you definitely need to glue them. His suggestion was a glue gun. I went full psyco and Araldited them. Your buttons may be better.
- getting a 12-5V transformer in there would be so sweet, but not enough room methinks.
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Transformers don't work with DC... :) Wemos do a nice little DC power shield that means you can connect up to 24v, so it could go directly to the battery connector.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790327733.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790327733.html)
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Transformers don't work with DC... :) Wemos do a nice little DC power shield that means you can connect up to 24v, so it could go directly to the battery connector.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790327733.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790327733.html)
Ah, correct - transformer is the wrong word. 'Convertor'!
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I've fitted a 12 - 5v USB charger thingy powered from the Sat Nag socket. Works perfectly and means it isn't on when the bike is off.
I'm also about to squeeze an on/off switch into the case so I can turn the really irritating flashing white led off when it is in navigation mode. I don't need to know it is working cos I can tell that if the nav phone is on the bike and cos it won't be most of the time, I don't need a light telling me it isn't connected. BlueTac works for now but it is, well, tacky!
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Fitted! Well I say fitted - bodged with a cable-tie and a bit of neoprene to sit it on.
It rocks very slightly on a solid press - just enough to annoy? Not sure. Two mounting points / cable ties would fix that.
In terms of actual size and fit a few things to note:
- the 4 closest buttons are reachable with the hand still on the bar
- the 4-way pad on the right isn't. A joystick would take less space but hey, it's early days for Joost, the designer. (https://jaxeadv.com/barbuttons/)
- the box would benefit from being maybe 2/3rds the height but that would need some serious rework to fit in all in. Lower profile buttons would also help decrease the reach.
I've also tested both Android and Apple betas of MRA Navigation Next (https://mranavigationnext.app/), and Kurviger, and both work well with the buttons.
Oh, and its sunny!
(http://www.poqit.com/barbuttons_mounted0.jpg)
(http://www.poqit.com/barbuttons_mounted2.jpg)
(http://www.poqit.com/barbuttons_mounted3.jpg)
Did I mention the sun?
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That looks a beaut'!
And hurrah for sun, I had a lovely walk earlier and feel more human again.
Now, as it's always easier to modify someone else's work, your comment on fit made me wonder, would a more 'wraparound' design work, where the buttons surround the existing button unit more?
Maybe this is where those companies start that make completely custom bar button sets. If we go with the soldering-a-plenty kit and swerve the nice tidy PCB, it's up to the skill/imagination of the 3D CAD person to customise this to fit any particular bike.
Given I have size 7 hands I may look into this when I've finished: my app, the telescope, a nice sit down.
Oh. Or is it not an issue that you have to take hand from bar? I'm assuming it's less than ideal but perhaps it ain't.
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I don't envisage using it that much on the fly, so I think you're right - you're only going to be using the buttons when correcting a route, or looking for little extra info - Zoom out and Re-centre are two of those closer buttons.
The main point is that it's a lot easier than trying to accurately tap a 6" screen in just the right place.
A wrap-round one would be sweet, but like you say, overly custom for a production run. But if you're bulding your own case...
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Mine is also fully assembled and sealed and working well.
I have done a gazillion trial fits and it is in the same position as Richard's but made slightly harder or easier as I have Helibars fitted.
I too went with the tie-wrap method but with the tie-wrap passing through a tube secured below the case using black Milliput two part epoxy putty which also forms the 'buffer' under the inner portion which in my case is moulded over the rearmost part of the clutch lever bracket, but not glued to it. Hopefully this will prevent any rocking. If it doesn't, I'll keep adding more till it works...
I have also fitted a miniature on/off toggle switch (to the top/front facing edge of the case drilled more or less through the bottom circle of the logo shown in Richard's last photo) so I can turn off the overly bright, really irritating and distracting white led which otherwise flashes ever 3 or 4 seconds when the buttons are connected to your device and every second when it isn't.
As most of my riding will be done without the need to connect it or to even have the nav phone on the bike, the flashing every second would just be too much to bear.
Ideally, I would like to be able to turn the BarButtons off when not in use but that would need yet another switch and there simply isn't room for two in there. For this reason I have powered mine off a 12-5v USB converter under the battery cover and this is powered from the Sat Nag socket in the main loom so it is on and off with ignition which isn't ideal but the thought of it being permanently on with it across the battery or having the socket on view and therefore easily accessible didn't really appeal.
Joost has said that he is looking at ways to dim/slow down the led flashes but I really don't like or need a warning light telling me everything is working normally, I can tell that by the push of a button and a glance at the screen. The only time the led is needed is during initial set-up or reconfiguration of the built in button mapping system.
Talking of distracting, I went with black and red buttons cos I'm not of the PlayStation generation...
I am not installing the device on the bike at the moment because I imagine the learning curve with the MRA Nav Next will be steeper than my pea-like intellect can cope with and so I will be playing with it in the comfort of my armchair till I reckon I can use it reasonably well without killing myself fumbling around on the bike at speed - even if it is only the mandatory 35 mph speed of traffic in the Marches.
So far I am pleased with how it went, a bit fiddly even for a once fully licensed electronic aircraft engineer but that is mainly due to dodgy up-close eyesight, too many soldering irons and not enough shaky fingers. Oh, and copious amounts of alcohol don't help. Now I have finished I can buy myself one of those crafty craft thingies with a set of clamps and poky fingers and a magnifying glass that I always need for such stuff but have never invested in. Or not.
Highly recommended for those struggling to switch from a fully developed sat nav to a do-it-yourself-with-a-friend system. And it makes your bike look like a real Desert Racer 8)
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I too went with the tie-wrap method but with the tie-wrap passing through a tube secured below the case using black Milliput two part epoxy putty which also forms the 'buffer' under the inner portion which in my case is moulded over the rearmost part of the clutch lever bracket, but not glued to it. Hopefully this will prevent any rocking. If it doesn't, I'll keep adding more till it works...
Oooo, I need some of that. Is that the one where you warm it up in hot water until it's pliable, mould it and let it set?
And if it's wrong, warm it up again - etc...
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No! In a word.
It is two-part epoxy, as in araldite, but comes in two large sticks, one brownish white and one black. You cut off the same length and knead them together till all the lighter colour has gone and then you use it like a dry'ish araldite.
It doesn't sag or run so is great for filling holes and building things up and when set can be filed, sanded and drilled.
Google Milliput for more info.
I forget the name of the other stuff but you can also get that in black which makes thing look way better than a gob of clear goo ::)
To get Milliput off you need to break out the saw...
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Transformers don't work with DC... :) Wemos do a nice little DC power shield that means you can connect up to 24v, so it could go directly to the battery connector.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790327733.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790327733.html)
Andy, where did you source your parts please? Specifically, the buttons and LED. I was all adding to cart from the main build page only to find the NL shop doesn't ship here. I've found the stuff on eBay at about double the price so far. As I'm a last minute Margaret I cannot abide the aliexpress wait/brain chips.
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ok, build cost so far:
14.44 GBP: buttons
8.90 GBP: Wemos
3.99 GBP: flipping waterproof led
11 GBP: Nuts and bolts
Total: £38.33
Add some electricity cost and the 700 quid printer over ten years or wtf.
If i'd been able to buy it from the Netherlands place I think we'd be at bout £25-30. If i'd been able to wait a month for postage, eliexpress would obviously be cheaper still. The ready printed is about £42.50.
Bugger.
But anyway, once I've tested this I may well re-design the enclosure so the PCB supplied with the kit would have been no use.
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... I may well re-design the enclosure so the PCB supplied with the kit would have been no use.
Wiring the buttons and LED by hand is easy, but a bit messy-looking.
But then again, once they're stuffed into a box, nobody knows your rats nest. ;D
There's an image somewhere on the BarButtons site, but I'm darned if I can find it. Ah ha, got it:
https://jaxeadv.com/barbuttons/how-to-assemble-the-barbuttons-diy-version/
(https://jaxeadv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/soldered-barbuttons-768x576.jpg)
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Transformers don't work with DC... :) Wemos do a nice little DC power shield that means you can connect up to 24v, so it could go directly to the battery connector.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790327733.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790327733.html)
Andy, where did you source your parts please? Specifically, the buttons and LED. I was all adding to cart from the main build page only to find the NL shop doesn't ship here. I've found the stuff on eBay at about double the price so far. As I'm a last minute Margaret I cannot abide the aliexpress wait/brain chips.
Ali express generally. Although they always say delivery will take a month stuff often arrives in about a week.
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Ah I thought so, thanks Andy.
Rich: Ah yes! I was squinting at that yesterday to try and determine if my re-positioning of the LED specifically would work, when I was initially trying to put it next to my new power outlet on the right side. The/my waterproof led is pretty long so I decided in the end to relocate it to the back, almost exactly where the original power outlet was.
Now I need to read his part on power, and whether I've forgotten to order a step-down thingy :)
Edit: Ordered the Wemos power board.
Also:
No more LED in your face, and power exiting at the side, between the two halves...
(https://i.ibb.co/Hz3jHL2/20230518-193631.jpg)
Power exiting (or entry'ing?!) from the base...
(https://i.ibb.co/grWNp95/20230518-193635.jpg)
Once proven and working I'll feed back to the fella, although tbh these changes took all of 5 minutes.
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Looks good, Matt.
I guess LED and power positions depend on the handlebar furniture (ooo - get me) around where you're hoping to put the BarButtons. Having power & LED on the right, away from the grip / towards the bike's centre, seems the most sensible to me. Having power exiting at the back/bottom can limit the mount positions. It just so happens downwards works on a K1300S - just luck.
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As they are £1.19 each and really handy for running 3.3v things from 12v I bought a bulk load of the power shield boards. I see you've ordered one anyway and I'm not a shop, but I keep the Wemos D1, C3 and power shields 'in stock' if you ever need one.
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If you update your firmware you will find that the flashing LED is no more, apart from in programming mode, either flashing or not. Joost worked his magic on our feedback so all of Matt's efforts to relocate it and my efforts to fit a switch in the line so I could stop it annoying me are now redundant manhours. Such is life... :laugh:
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Aha that is good news!
I shall see about reverting the LED position if/when I need to print another to get it to work nicely on the KTM.
@andy thanks for the parts offer :)
I've an idea to use the Wemos Power board to drop a switched battery feed down to nice voltage and then send it out to both the BarButtons and the Quad Lock wireless charger. Sound reasonable? I need to get my head back into the electronics mode and read up on it properly.
EDIT: Ah, the wireless charger needs a minimum of 5V
Oh, and work out how to physically package it all. I used posi-lock previously (and in a sheltered spot) but this time feel like I should make a properly waterproof setup, especially for the Wemos Power.
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The Wemos power board is a 'shield' that's designed to piggy back on the D1 (or C3). If you unsolder the plug connector you can get the C3+power sandwich in the bar buttons case.
The power board uses a switching voltage regulator that can provide about 1A, which is fine for the C3 but not enough for a wireless charger.
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Aah thanks Andy. Yeah, reading more it sounded like modern charging would need something more hefty!
I dug out a bunch of waterproof connectors from my hid/led experiments on the K so I'll see how elegant I can make it all :).
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Well, there we go. All done I hope. From nothing on my bars to lots!
(https://i.ibb.co/55Z4c4p/20230530-152250.jpg)
Barbuttons - USB cable to dual USB socket in the cig lighter slot.
Quad Lock with vibration thing and wireless charger - using the smart cable thing into bike battery.
Insta360 X3 remote - I'll either use 2nd USB port or charge it when needed.
RAM mount for said camera (I've other mounting options too)
Oh and blue thing above screen is my bip&go holder. TomTom up top is wired to switched power.
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:D
Looks a bit like my bars.
(https://thumbsnap.com/t/8MtU4zPg.jpg) (https://thumbsnap.com/8MtU4zPg)
TPMS, Scott Oiler control, camera control, Tomtom, seat heater control (only just visible) and weatherproof phone case (phone is for music, Waze and Sat Nav data, as well as calls!).
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Thought this deserved a bit of an update.
Through the entire Old Gits and my following 2 and a half weeks in the Balkans I failed to use the Barbuttons once and mostly relied on either TomTom import of MRA or offline maps.me when trying to get from a to b.
Then a couple of weeks ago Richard reminded me how to switch key map to the nav one and what does what and I've loved it ever since (ever since being the rest of the day as I haven't ridden since).
In use with MRA it allowed me to zoom in/out for context, switch to top down for similar, and skip way points during our ride out to get around... I don't know, a closed road or something. Super.
MRA in nav mode seems to have some weird zooming behaviour when switching perspective, but mostly I got along with it.
Anyway being senaible/bored I decided to see if the quadlock would mount on my 3d printed TomTom mount so it can sit above the screen instead of down low. Essentially I've screwed the captive screw in the vibration dampener directly into one of the four TomTom mount holes in my 3d printed holder. Unfortunately the screw isn't long enough for a nut to go on the back. Currently it's friction plus thread lock. We'll see how that does next week. Yay v-twin vibrations.
To fix this I opened a chat with quadlock and after a bit of clarification they're sending me a ten mm longer screw! No charge. They also clarified that the captive screw can be removed with a bit of brute force. I've yet to confirm this, but once the longer screw arrives I'll give it a go.
If it works fine I will then print a new mount specifically for the quadlock. And be a mobile boy.
(https://i.ibb.co/hRm8TSG/20230818-132654.jpg)
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And that bit of clear screen just above all the other distractions, what do use that bit for?
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And that bit of clear screen just above all the other distractions, what do use that bit for?
When the light is right I can admire my reflection :afro:
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BarButtons' aliiiive!
So after using this for almost a year I've decided to strip it down and rebuild. Mostly because my USB plug is getting rusty. Also because I built the box using PLA, and I've never been happy with my solder job of all the little wires.
Here's what it looked like
(https://i.ibb.co/XSjGBf8/20240224-080219.jpg)
And a rubbish gap here, plus cracked retaining part (PLA K)
(https://i.ibb.co/chRpwkp/20240224-080228.jpg)
And on inspection, only a tiny bit of rusting on the washer that was beneath the nut. So not too bad.
(https://i.ibb.co/QkjGQGr/20240224-085919.jpg)
Another thing that's been grinding my gears is that the thing would start to rotate on the bars. I want to resolve this too. In fact here's my list of objectives:
1. Change power supply to use permanent switched from the bike (I have the 12v to 5v board already)
2. Make a better solution for the pain in the bum captive-but-not nuts when mounting to the bars
3. Prevent rotation
4. Ensure waterproofness
5. Make the thing easier to assemble - mostly by reverting the LED to the front
To make all this easier I've reached out to Joost enquiring whether he will sell my the PCB separately. This would get rid of the rats nest and make things a lot easier. I'll then (either way) make the thing larger in some dimension so it can accept the voltage drop board. It shouldn't be too difficult to customise the mount for my bike/setup and prevent rotation. I might actually make a gasket for waterproofing at the top/base interface this time. Or just a better overlap plus drain.
Progress updates to come...
Edit: How is everyone else getting on with it? Now I have it on the right map (thanks Rich) I use it a heck of a lot.
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BarButtons' aliiiive!
1. Change power supply to use permanent switched from the bike (I have the 12v to 5v board already)
2. Make a better solution for the pain in the bum captive-but-not nuts when mounting to the bars
3. Prevent rotation
4. Ensure waterproofness
5. Make the thing easier to assemble - mostly by reverting the LED to the front
Edit: How is everyone else getting on with it? Now I have it on the right map (thanks Rich) I use it a heck of a lot.
> 2. Make a better solution for the pain in the bum captive-but-not nuts when mounting to the bars and 3. Prevent rotation
I just put some ex-Grip Puppy foam underneath it and cable-tied it down (cable tie through the back mounting holes of the box). Yes it rocks very gently, but it doesn't rotate.
> 4. Ensure waterproofness
Mine seems to be waterproof enough (my USB is far more likely to get wet, and that's been OK so far - 1 year only), but then again I do try and minimise the amount of time I ride in the rain otherwise I dissolve like the baddie in Roger Rabbit.
(https://screenmusings.org/movie/dvd/Who-Framed-Roger-Rabbit/images/Who-Framed-Roger-Rabbit-0896.jpg)
(courtesy of screenmusings.org (http://screenmusings.org))
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Ah bon! Well so far I've also gone down the cable tie route somewhat. But to add another point of attachment around a mirror vertical. Provided I can get my printer not to fill my hidden cable tie channels with support material. Good times!
Re waterproof yes, no real issues, but I've increased the height of the lip so far. I'll probably just silicone the edge before I out it together.
Only thing remaining is to determine where the power board will go. I'll wait until Joost says yay or nay before making any more changes though. With his pcb I'll have space. Without it I'll need to make space.
On taking mine apart I've also found the main body had started to deform slightly. I'm putting that down to PLA. I'm hoping the bought ones are PETG or better.
I was contemplating faffing with the source code but after seeing he only publishes v1 (I haven't done a github detective job yet mind) and we all are on v3 for the multi map ability... I've decided against that for now.
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I used a little black silicon sealant on the mating faces matey.
And yet another plug for Milliput ( or whatever it is called) black epoxy putty which I used to form the mounting on the bottom of the barbuttonbox to sit over the left switchgear mounting clamp and bolts which I covered with cling-film first so it set in the right shape but didn't stick to the bike.
Then I used a tie-wrap through a length of washer tubing moulded into the epoxy to hold it all in place. Pops off easily enough if I need to get the clamp bolts off (be the first time since fitting the HeliBars, but hey...).
I was a bit too keen to silence(?) the overly bright flashing led so fitted a switch to turn it off. Immediately after that Joost took our feedback on board and turned it off once it is connected :winkthumbs:
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I'll wait until Joost says yay or nay before making any more changes though.
He was a bit slow to reply last year, according to other potential NavButtons users on MRA, so don't be upset if he's a bit silent.
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...although he did take our comments about the led seriously enough to make changes and his comms about that were OK.
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Ack, no response yet. I found the service he used to create the PCB, but somewhat as one would expect, the actual schematic isn't public on his profile.
If he's gone to ground I'll try and make my own based on his wiring instructions for the DIY version. Unless anybody took a photo of their PCB!
If so, just let me know and don't post any images here, as I don't want to be responsible for delaying his retirement, and I'll pay him appropriately after he resurfaces in any case.
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Still no response, however I've just been perusing his Instagram/Faceface etc and now have 4 more images of the circuit board from various angles. As my FPV camera for the mini plane isn't working, and I'm waiting on more tiny tech to get the Tx and Rx to talk, I'll spend some time today working out how to PCB. I did a week or so work placement back when I was somewhere around 14 or 15 at a local business where I got to design PCBs (to keep me busy, but it was a fun early problem solving job) so i'm sure I'll remember eventually!
Edit: Damnit: https://forum.myrouteapp.com/topic/5665/motobuttons-lite-diy-project/8
Too...many...cereals...to...choose...from!
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Spent a day reverse engineering the wiring diagrams and learning how to use pcb design tools. Then learning how to get a 2d slice of the BarButtons case to work out how the pcb should be cut to fit. Then submitted it to be lasered and cut by some PCB maker.
Relatively cheap at 20 euros for a minimum order of 3. If I cocked it up or determine there are improvements required it's not too upsetting.
Also the PCB people - Aisler - are Europe-based! Was relieved not to be pushed down the China route. Indeed the prices were very similar. (I await someone to tell me they outsource to China and I will then cry)
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Well the boards arrived and with a tiny bit of pushing the button tabs about it fits!
(https://i.ibb.co/gZ01gc2/20240405-175442.jpg)
Now I just need to start soldering. The only worry - apart from whether I completely cocked up the wiring - is the clearance with the LED is touch and go. But I can always just re-print. I'll probably do that in any case.
Next, I am finally moving on from TinkerCAD... CAD, to OnShape proper CAD. TinkerCAD is essentially plonking blocks of various shapes down and moving em all about to make stuff work. My First CAD. OnShape is fully featured 4 figures licence fee thing. It's available free with the could-be-worse limitation of all files are made public. I'm making a rough mock-up of my bars as below, and going to build a proper mount. I'll do the same for the CRF when I decide where to mount em. I doubt i'll be using it on-the-go so much.
The black ring is the mirror stalk attachment. I've got 15mm then before tapering and bendy stuff starts.
(https://i.ibb.co/LYG6mQ2/bar.png)
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Have you tried Fusion360? I think that’s a good step up from TinkerCAD and free for personal use.
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I did for a while but I find this thing more intuitive. Maybe I'll try again once I've relearned all the basics in Onshape.
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(https://i.ibb.co/r67nRhh/20240425-121608.jpg)
Success! Tested these last few days and it seems I reverse engineered the pcb/wiring info correctly.
For this one I also wired in the little power shield thing to take the bike 12v switched feed and bop out a nice 5v for the wemos thing running BarButtons. It's just stuffed in at the mo so next iteration I'll either work out if I can stake, or else update the pcb to mount that too.
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Oh also ill add that it's now made from PETG, which is far superior to PLA in the whole standing up to being outside slash not slowly degrading stakes. It's some old stuff I had which is why it is in that strange semi transparent colour and not black.
I had my pla windscreen deflector extender break this week, which reminded me how useful PETG is. I'm unsure what Jaxe used for the bought kits. Hopefully PETG too. Or at least not PLA.