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Author Topic: Erratic throttle when wet  (Read 3112 times)

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Offline stevel

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Erratic throttle when wet
« on: December 03, 2019, 02:03:47 pm »
Just after some ideas please, folks.

The title says it all really, but here's the longer version:

Last year, touring through Spain I was forced to leave my K13S (2014 model) out in some heavy rain, all night long.
The next morning, it worked perfectly when I started it up. We rode 3/4 mile to a petrol station and filled up.

About 2 miles after leaving the petrol station, there was a momentary glitch in the throttle - halfway round a corner it just lost power for half a second, then recovered.

Over the next 5 miles, the throttle glitch got progressively worse, with throttle response becoming more of an on or off affair, especially at part throttle. Eventually the bike stalled halfway up a mountain and wouldn't restart (ie it turned over OK but wouldn't run - definitely not the 'Hot start' problem).

I freewheeled back down the mountain 2 miles to a village, where I could take a proper look at it. My first thought was the throttle sensor, so disconnected the battery and went through the TPS reset process (open throttle wide 3 times etc).

Nothing I tried helped - so after 10 mins or so I stopped trying to start the bike for fear of flattening the battery.

20 mins later, prompted by the imminent arrival of a massive thunderstorm, I thought I'd give it one last try. The bike worked perfectly from that point onwards. Current theory on this is that the run after the petrol station got enough heat into the engine to warm up whatever was causing the problem - it just took a while to do so.


So, does anyone have any theories about where I should be looking for the culprit on this one? Obviously, TPS is still a suspect, and will be waterproofed as much as I can when I find it. Could it be anything else?

Thanks for any ideas.


Steve

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Offline Steve CH

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2019, 05:20:26 pm »
The S has a cable throttle so the fault has to be in the electronics, maybe have a look at the fault codes.

Steve
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Offline Phmode

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2019, 05:47:29 pm »
Last year....

So, has it done it again since? The throttle position sensor is very well hidden and therefore very well protected on the K.

It is located on the right hand end of the bank of throttle bodies and is an almost interference fit inside the main frame box on the right. With the right hand tank panel off it is possible to see it but not much else.

I've never heard of a TPS doing anything other than failing completely or going weird, certainly not giving a sudden and once off glitch as you describe.

Any fuelling fault that happens shortly after a re-fuelling stop is almost always the result of contaminated fuel, either from the pump or from water ingress around the fuel cap when first opened, especially after heavy rain.

I would open the fuel cap and bung the hole up with some oily rag and then pour a little water slowly into the well around the outside of the filler hole. If it drains away immediately then that rules out a blocked drain hose. If not, then you can try checking the pipe run and 'rodding it through' with a piece of thin electrical wire.

If this hasn't happened again since last year then I wouldn't worry about it, but do the drain test anyway.
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Offline chriscanning

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2019, 07:08:57 pm »
I’ve had a few glitches with my K over the years and at the start of the OP’s post thought ‘Been there done that’ he’s put diesel in but if it ran OK later it certainly wasn’t that and in recent years when there’s been a problem just plug them in and all is revealed with the delights of modern day diagnostics
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Offline stevel

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2019, 11:41:42 am »
Oops.

Forgot part of the story....

Being a DIY type fellow, I had my GS-911 with me, and a small laptop for diags. Useful thing to have when riding with 3 other BMW riders.

Once safely in the village square, I plugged in and found a diag code - can't remember exactly, but it said something to the effect that the TPS sensor was out of range - which is why I then did a TPS reset. Cleared the code, tried the bike again but still wouldn't start... but it didn't throw the error code again (or any others). 15 mins later it started like it had never happened, and has worked perfectly since.

Many thanks for the replies and ideas so far - I'll be checking for the blocked drain hose next time I venture out to my garage. It looks cold outside, so might be a few days.


Steve
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Offline chriscanning

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2019, 03:30:02 pm »
You didn’t say how much fuel you put in either from my and others friends experience you will get away with around a gallon of diesel in an otherwise full tank with some coughing and spluttering any more than that and your in deep doo doo  :)

And for you guys who have never tried these K’s will not run on a flat battery,as luck would have it had a mate with me who managed to find one 50 miles outside of St Malo.
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Offline fjtwelve

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2019, 06:09:49 pm »
How flat is flat? I have successfully bump started the k12 from warm and cold when it wouldn't turn over, although the lights worked
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Offline stevel

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2019, 06:59:31 pm »
Quote from: chriscanning on December 04, 2019, 03:30:02 pm
You didn’t say how much fuel you put in either from my and others friends experience you will get away with around a gallon of diesel in an otherwise full tank with some coughing and spluttering any more than that and your in deep doo doo  :)

And for you guys who have never tried these K’s will not run on a flat battery,as luck would have it had a mate with me who managed to find one 50 miles outside of St Malo.

So, before fuelling I had about 30 miles range, and I filled it.
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Offline chriscanning

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2019, 07:04:02 pm »
We pull up at the Shell garage outside Portsmouth docks fill up get on the bike it’s stone dead,RAC are going to be 2 hours!!! So I bump a fully loaded K... and ride round the corner to the Brittany ferry queue where one of the employees see we are having problems and informs me that if I can’t ride the bike onto the boat under its own steam we ain’t going.

So I bump it again from queue one to the second before getting on the boat and bump it a third time to ride it on,by which time in full kit i’m Sweating like a glass blowers arse  :),after the worse night sleep ever bump it again on the wet deck of the ferry which is some kind of trick I can tell you and off we go.

Outside in the dockyard we have a board meeting with the others and decide it’s running ok we’ll go for it..... 50 miles outside of St Malo we are cruising at 90 look down and all the clocks have stopped working and 30 seconds after that the engine did,coasted to a standstill and that was it kaput,Mate go’s off in search if a battery....

4 hours later comes back with such,now over the years i’ve Done a bit with batteries and group buys etc and ask him how much 150 quid he replies.... i’m Saying bloody hell!!!! And he replies ‘I thought the same but it wasn’t my money’ ;D and we still laugh about till this day,fitted battery and off we went.

2 years later ignition light starts flickering take to dealer they plug it in it’s fine,with no bad read out extended warranty would not pay so kicked that into touch as well.

Couple of months after that went kaput outside of Norwich in 36c of heat and the RAC excelled themselves that well!!!! They coughed up £250 in compensation which really is another story,but a brand new alternator was sourced of German eBay for £125 and I fitted it.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 07:08:04 pm by chriscanning »
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Offline chriscanning

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2019, 07:05:33 pm »
Quote from: stevel on December 04, 2019, 06:59:31 pm
Quote from: chriscanning on December 04, 2019, 03:30:02 pm
You didn’t say how much fuel you put in either from my and others friends experience you will get away with around a gallon of diesel in an otherwise full tank with some coughing and spluttering any more than that and your in deep doo doo  :)

And for you guys who have never tried these K’s will not run on a flat battery,as luck would have it had a mate with me who managed to find one 50 miles outside of St Malo.

So, before fuelling I had about 30 miles range, and I filled it.

Certainly not bad fuel then because with a tank full of diesel they don’t run at all.....
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 07:09:11 pm by chriscanning »
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Offline TomL

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2019, 11:01:01 pm »
Quote from: stevel on December 04, 2019, 11:41:42 am
Oops.

Forgot part of the story....

Being a DIY type fellow, I had my GS-911 with me, and a small laptop for diags. Useful thing to have when riding with 3 other BMW riders.

Once safely in the village square, I plugged in and found a diag code - can't remember exactly, but it said something to the effect that the TPS sensor was out of range - which is why I then did a TPS reset. Cleared the code, tried the bike again but still wouldn't start... but it didn't throw the error code again (or any others). 15 mins later it started like it had never happened, and has worked perfectly since.

Many thanks for the replies and ideas so far - I'll be checking for the blocked drain hose next time I venture out to my garage. It looks cold outside, so might be a few days.


Steve
I would start by checking if there are any fault codes at the moment.
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Offline stevel

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2019, 04:34:20 pm »
Not a single fault code since the incident happened.

Well, so far it looks like i’ll be forgetting about this unless it happens again!

Thanks for the help folks.
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Offline Costas

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Re: Erratic throttle when wet
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2019, 10:22:32 am »
An isolated incident with water in the form of humidity entering the pin connector of ESA unit. MY guess.
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