ball joints K1200R

[PeterZ]

sinds a few weeks now I feel a strange vibration when braking hard above 80.
At first, I thought it had to do with the with the brake disks or the front tyre, but the problem occurs sinds a few weeks and the brake pads and disks has been renewed last February.
Now I think that the ball joints have worn out and when lifting the front end and jitter the front wheel there is a light click.
I have found a topic about ball joints and there was a link to a German website https://www.motorradteile-service.de/KUGELGELENK-OBEN::511719.html here they sell FRAP ball joints made in Italy for a reasonable price compared to OEM joints.
Does anyone have experience with this FRAP joints, how is the quality compared with OEM joints?
one other thing next week we're going to the Voges for a week is it save to drive the bike and repair it when we're back?

Peter

[raesewell]

Classic symptoms of failing ball joins is weaving at slow speed. I think Costas used aftermarket ball joints, he'll be along soon.
The ball joints are very tight and I mean very very tight. Make sure you have the right tools at hand. You may have to use heat.

[Phmode]

Judder during high-speed braking and a weave at 30mph/50kph are both classic symptoms of ball-joint wear.

It 'might' be safe to ride with it but better to get them chamged.

I,m not convinced that any ball-joints are better than the OEM ones, but they are cheaper.

Unless you are a very competent diy mechanic, get the dealer to fit them.

[dmg44]

I had this issue. I brought it to the dealer and they wouldnt let me have it back until it was fixed, they considered it too dangerous, they gave me a loaner until it was fixed

Dont chance it

[stevel]

If it is affecting your braking, you need to get it done.

I did get the FRAP aftermarket ones, and fitted them myself - it's a fairly straightforward job if you have the correct tools, but it did take a lot of time and heat to get them out - BMW used some fairly aggressive threadlock on there. Add that to the 260Nm tightening torque on the ball joints, meaning you need to apply nearer 400-500Nm to get the ball joint off - so you need a heavy bench vice with some nice soft wood jaws (so it doesn't hurt the paint!). I used 3/4 inch sockets with a 4ft scaffold pole on it, and most of the time it was the bench that moved first, not the ball joint.

So if you haven't got time to mess around with it, might be best to book it in at the dealer as quick as you can.

[Phmode]

...and the first time my dealer fitted new ones at 18,000 miles, paid for by me, they failed within 800 miles.

The second time, under BMW parts warranty as I had paid for the first job, they stripped the threads out of the wheel carrier before the joints came loose. BMW provided a new wheel carrier and ball-joints all covered under the parts warranty and goodwill 

That micro-encapsulated BMW thread-weld is a nonsense, even the new fairing screws came smothered in the stuff...

[PeterZ]

wow that doesn't sound like an easy job, maybe I'll ask the dealer what the costs are to replace the ball joints and what the cost are when I bring in the wheel carrier. the Reprom doesn't mention heating the wheel carrier, just to heat up the bolt that holds the trailing arm to 100 degrees.
@stevel any problems with the FRAP joints?

[stevel]

wow that doesn't sound like an easy job, maybe I'll ask the dealer what the costs are to replace the ball joints and what the cost are when I bring in the wheel carrier. the Reprom doesn't mention heating the wheel carrier, just to heat up the bolt that holds the trailing arm to 100 degrees.
@stevel any problems with the FRAP joints?

I basically ignored RepROM when I did this job. I don't normally - usually I stick to exactly what it says, but RepROM wants you to take half the bike apart to get to the ball joints. I took the much simpler option - instead of removing the trailing arms etc, just remove the nuts on top of the ball joints - the forks just drop out after that. You still have to take the front wheel, mudguard and brake calipers off, but it's better than removing all the fairing etc that they tell you to.

FRAP joints seemed just as good quality as OEM (in fact, I'm sure I remember reading that FRAP had been supplied as OEM at some stage). No problems at all with them 6000 miles on.

[TomL]

I removed the ball joints without any problems using an impact wrench and a socket. Didn't heat up the wheel carrier.

[PeterZ]

wow that doesn't sound like an easy job, maybe I'll ask the dealer what the costs are to replace the ball joints and what the cost are when I bring in the wheel carrier. the Reprom doesn't mention heating the wheel carrier, just to heat up the bolt that holds the trailing arm to 100 degrees.
@stevel any problems with the FRAP joints?

I basically ignored RepROM when I did this job. I don't normally - usually I stick to exactly what it says, but RepROM wants you to take half the bike apart to get to the ball joints. I took the much simpler option - instead of removing the trailing arms etc, just remove the nuts on top of the ball joints - the forks just drop out after that. You still have to take the front wheel, mudguard and brake calipers off, but it's better than removing all the fairing etc that they tell you to.

FRAP joints seemed just as good quality as OEM (in fact, I'm sure I remember reading that FRAP had been supplied as OEM at some stage). No problems at all with them 6000 miles on.

interesting, I will start with that approach.
the dealer charge €320 for a set of ball joint and 5 a 6 hours work to replace them, total costs around €800 
I now ordered a set of Frap joint and will ask the local machine shop if they have a wrench and socket they can spare.

[stevel]

Something to be aware of then...

The ball joints are different sizes - one is 50mm the other 55. Spanners are an option, but access is limited (and how would you tighten them to the correct torque with a spanner?). A socket set is easier, but most 50 or 55mm sockets aren’t deep enough as the top of the ball joint gets in the way - you need specific deep sockets to do the job right, and there aren’t many of them for sale and they all cost a lot! If you do find them, they’re likely to be 3/4 inch drive, so you’ll need a torque wrench in the same size to do them up correctly.

[Phmode]

...or a 1/2” to 3/4 adapter - Halfords.

[TomL]

Something to be aware of then...

The ball joints are different sizes - one is 50mm the other 55. Spanners are an option, but access is limited (and how would you tighten them to the correct torque with a spanner?). A socket set is easier, but most 50 or 55mm sockets aren’t deep enough as the top of the ball joint gets in the way - you need specific deep sockets to do the job right, and there aren’t many of them for sale and they all cost a lot! If you do find them, they’re likely to be 3/4 inch drive, so you’ll need a torque wrench in the same size to do them up correctly.

I removed mine with standard 3/4" drive sockets and a 1/2" adaptor. I went into a commercial vehicle workshop and persuaded a mechanic to lend them to me.

[beech]

Bought 3/4" sockets and welded a portion of the back of 1/2" sockets to them. They fit and are not too tall. I'm lucky to have a very large vice to put the wheel carrier in padded with wood. Takes me about 4 or 5 hours to do the complete job. Be careful tightening up that 7mm hex allen to 90 Nm. I stop before that as it is about to strip.

[Costas]

Parts and labour cost here around 350€ ,but am in Greece.  I find charges of UK official dealers are unbeliavebly stinky. Like they want to sent costumers away.
FRAP will do fine. 6 years now and 40000 kms no issues , finding a local mechanic with good skills sounds the best idea.