Author Topic: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup  (Read 3027 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline richtea

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4356
  • Karma: +47/-3
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: K1300S
  • Location:: Banburyshire
Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« on: May 28, 2021, 11:29:22 am »
To celebrate the arrival spring arriving I did my annual radiator clean. I'd normally do it in late April / early May but Mithras* decided to delay things.

Anyway, all went well, the crud was about half what I'd normally see, reflecting the Covid limitations on my winter riding.
Put it all back together, remember to connect the thermometer on the left, and the 2 plugs on the right, fold in the rubber bits around the radiator, don't have screws left over, etc.

I come to start the engine, and lots of healthy chugging, but no go. Hmm.
First thought - I've got something wet whilst spraying the rad from the rear.
I left it overnight, and tried again this morning - still no go.

Out with the Motoscan app + OBD dongle:



Hmm, maybe I moved or damaged a cable.
Back out, righthand panel off, to double check the two connectors behind the radiator. The big one is the fan, the other one - who knows? (someone intelligent here will know of course, but not me!):



A careful look, and the small plug hasn't quite sat right down in it's socket, which is quite deep. Unplug, look in, all clean, plug back in firmly, and there's a click when it's properly locked in, and the little 'latch' blob shows in the socket hole (see pic):




Lessons learnt:
- check the connectors really carefully
- pray to Mithras for good weather




*Mithras presides over the changing of the seasons and the movement of the heavens themselves. In the ancient cult Mithras was represented by the constellation Persus, who changes the position of the celestial sphere by 'slaying' the constellation Taurus (the Bull). At the spring equinox Mithras moves the earth back into Aries, raising lots of energy and power. Yeah, whatever, but I like the idea.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 08:09:14 pm by richtea »

Offline TomL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3107
  • Karma: +49/-5
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: K1300S
  • Location:: Hertfordshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2021, 12:12:28 pm »
That would suggest that that connector is the crankshaft position sensor connector.
As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

Offline richtea

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4356
  • Karma: +47/-3
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: K1300S
  • Location:: Banburyshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2021, 01:25:15 pm »
That would suggest that that connector is the crankshaft position sensor connector.

I guess so. I didn't bother trying to see where it went. It would only get me into trouble.
Or maybe the crankshaft error was a leftover from some other time. They don't seem to have timestamps.

Offline Matt

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2771
  • Karma: +20/-2
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: KTM 1290 Super Duke GT
  • Modifications and add-ons:: Oberon slave cylinder, 3D printed nav mount
  • Location:: Berkshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2021, 02:17:07 pm »
So a makeshift immobiliser :P.

Good work though, and a collective lesson!

I have a question please sir. When did crankshaft sensors come into existence?
"Why was the spider disappointed after browsing the web? Because he couldn't find any fly downloads!"
Claude.ai effort at an original joke - 2022

Offline raesewell

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6018
  • Karma: +55/-5
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: Yamaha FJR (2013)
  • Location:: Normanton West Yorkshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2021, 02:29:58 pm »
and why do crankshafts have to be censored  ???

Offline farmer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
  • Karma: +15/-0
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: k1200rs, k1300s
  • Location:: maghera,derry,ireland
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2021, 02:55:37 pm »
perhaps a solution to turning the engine without it starting...

Offline richtea

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4356
  • Karma: +47/-3
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: K1300S
  • Location:: Banburyshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2021, 04:56:26 pm »
So a makeshift immobiliser :P.

Good work though, and a collective lesson!

I have a question please sir. When did crankshaft sensors come into existence?

https://www.samarins.com/glossary/crank_sensor.html

Second sentence says it all:
Without a crankshaft position sensor the engine wouldn't start.

Who knew the little cable was the vital one...

Offline Matt

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2771
  • Karma: +20/-2
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: KTM 1290 Super Duke GT
  • Modifications and add-ons:: Oberon slave cylinder, 3D printed nav mount
  • Location:: Berkshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2021, 05:17:13 pm »
Hall-effect, now I'm with you! Brillo! Reminds me I still want an oscilloscope one day!
"Why was the spider disappointed after browsing the web? Because he couldn't find any fly downloads!"
Claude.ai effort at an original joke - 2022

Offline TomL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3107
  • Karma: +49/-5
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: K1300S
  • Location:: Hertfordshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2021, 09:38:56 pm »
When did crankshaft sensors come into existence?
About the time when engines started to be controlled by ECUs.
As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

Offline Phmode

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11970
  • Karma: +90/-19
  • I am the evil webmaster, do not cross me!
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: BMW K1300S 2012
  • Modifications and add-ons:: Sargent Seat, Powerbronze Screen, Akrapovic Silencer, Ilmberger Hugger, K12S Black Top Yoke, Helibars, Cruise, Centre Stand, Sidestand Extender, Full 3M Film, Barkbusters Hand Guards in winter.
  • Location:: Ledbury, Herefordshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2021, 11:49:27 pm »
I have a question please sir. When did crankshaft sensors come into existence?

At the same time manufacturers started fitting solid state ignition systems and stopped fitting mechanical distributors. Early electronic ignition systems such as Piranha used electronics (rather than the points, capacitor and coil system) to fire the plugs but still used the distributor to detect when to do so.

Mechanical distributors were gear driven directly off the camshaft and so they knew exactly when to trigger the spark and to which plug to send it.

Mechanical advance via bob-weights in the distributor compensated for the engine spinning faster and the spark needing to fire the fuel/air mixture earlier in relation to tdc (top dead centre).

Vacuum advance via a diaphragm on the distributor, operated by a tube connected to the inlet manifold, further advanced the firing of the plug under acceleration.

All of this is now done by the ECU/s which have no idea where the engine is in its rotation.

And that is why and when the crankshaft position sensor came into being. Simples!

Offline Matt

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2771
  • Karma: +20/-2
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: KTM 1290 Super Duke GT
  • Modifications and add-ons:: Oberon slave cylinder, 3D printed nav mount
  • Location:: Berkshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2021, 08:59:34 am »
Well that's all well and Good Brian but what year?! :D

Also thanks, that was a good read and I was telling my friend this too, we each have vague memories of the end of the distributor cap!
"Why was the spider disappointed after browsing the web? Because he couldn't find any fly downloads!"
Claude.ai effort at an original joke - 2022

Offline TomL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3107
  • Karma: +49/-5
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: K1300S
  • Location:: Hertfordshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2021, 05:42:28 pm »
Some cars have a CPS and a distributor cap.
As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

Offline black-k1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2014
  • Karma: +23/-2
  • An Original Old Git.
    • View Profile
    • The Old Gits
  • My K bike model:: ex K1200S, K1300S Sport & K1300S Motorsport owner. Now a Kawasaki H2 SX SE owner
  • Modifications and add-ons:: Upgrade to Kawasaki H2 SX SE! Almost 220bhp at the wheel! BST Carbon wheels and Sargent seat
  • Location:: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk, UK
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2021, 05:46:46 pm »
Some cars have a CPS and a distributor cap.

Indeed!  We shouldn't confuse distribution of spark with timing of spark. CPS will be used to time when to spark.
Correct rear brake use is scientifically proven to shorten stopping distances in EVERY road situation.

European Motorcycle Tours since 1998
The Old Gits - www.old-gits.org

Offline Phmode

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11970
  • Karma: +90/-19
  • I am the evil webmaster, do not cross me!
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: BMW K1300S 2012
  • Modifications and add-ons:: Sargent Seat, Powerbronze Screen, Akrapovic Silencer, Ilmberger Hugger, K12S Black Top Yoke, Helibars, Cruise, Centre Stand, Sidestand Extender, Full 3M Film, Barkbusters Hand Guards in winter.
  • Location:: Ledbury, Herefordshire
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2021, 11:31:15 pm »
Some cars have a CPS and a distributor cap.

Why would any car with an ECU still use such a vague and inefficient method of distributing a spark as a distributor cap?

Offline AndyLP

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 79
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
  • My K bike model:: K1200S
  • Location:: Benfleet Essex
Re: Radiator cleaning - small hiccup
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2021, 07:21:23 am »
 ;D Had the same problems when I first did a rad clean, would not start, checked the plug and not pushed into place properly, was very happy when started.   :thumbsup: