EuroKClub
General forum area => K1200 / K1300 Forum => Topic started by: TurboBevy on April 27, 2018, 10:12:45 am
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Enjoyed reading this, thought I'd share.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/motorcycle-news-uk/20161109/281500750821204
(Ed. Nice one John. I've pinched it and posted it below.)
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Motorcycle News 9 Nov 2016
By Simon Hargreaves
MCN CONTRIBUTOR
Goodbye to the K1300S
BMW’S eternally popular K1300S gets the axe for 2017 – so we go for one last glorious blast to say goodbye to the 175bhp oddball.
Highly rated for its storming engine and inter-continental comfort, the big BMW also benefits from one of the oddest front ends in any mass-production machine. Now, however, the Germans have decided to call time on the big K as their S1000XR steals the sports-touring limelight. We hack over to the Nürburgring and back as a fitting tribute to best sports-tourer ever.
Velocity is relative to the observer. To the trucker grinding gears in his slate-grey 12-wheeler at 55mph on the Autobahn, the Bmw-shaped streak of howling metal and plastic spears past him close enough to spin his wheel nuts, is warping Germany’s space/time continuum at 161 feet per second. Yet if the pair of Bundespolizei in the parked patrol car cared to get their radar detector warmed up at the same moment, the same blur of two-wheeled hysteria would register around 164mph – or 241 feet per second – as it screams blue and white murder past the lay-by
But to the rider, crouched, head down, chin bobbling gently on the plastic battery cover and isolated from the Sturm und Drang happening all about in a pocket of calm, the big, lairy K1300S might as well be standing still. Its snow-white speedo points nor’east of 160mph, the tacho dances around 10,500rpm and the 1293cc inline four – canted forward to 55 degrees to lie down beneath the frame spars – is gulping pressurised air through pair of long intake snouts and funnelling it into the airbox at the scarcely believable rate of around 90 litres – the volume of a decent fish tank – every second.
From there it plummets down all four throttle bodies and past a quartet of 46mm butterfly valves pinned flat open and where it meets petrol, squirted into the airstream under constantly variable load-based pressure. The mixture races past eight intake valves battered by tiny finger rockers, tumbling and swirling for a fraction of a second before being slammed against the combustion chamber ceiling, ignited, burned and then fired out into the exhaust ports and the wide blue yonder. At 165mph, the whole process takes 0.0057s.
All this and the K’s fuel consumption is apparently only 30mpg – clearly an average figure; after all, we haven’t been doing 165mph all day. They don’t appreciate that kind of thing in Belgium.
But the traffic has cleared momentarily on the A1 heading south from Cologne towards the Nürburgring. And this is a K1300S for goodness sake – arguably the fastest long-distance bike BMW have ever built. If you can’t open it up and stretch its legs here, in its homeland, legally, you might as well be riding a moped.
Except BMW aren’t building it any more. From next year the once-mighty 175bhp K1300S is being deleted. Sales have slowed to trickle as the younger, more adventure-fashionable and Euro 4-friendly S1000XR usurps the K’s high-speed mileage crown. Now, the XR is an indisputably excellent motorbike – but when it comes to burying your head behind a screen, gripping a wide set of clip-ons, sticking it in top and unzipping the motor’s flies to unleash its astonishing midrange bulge, few bikes can match the meaty swagger of a K1300S.
The Autobahn slows to crawl, the A1 funnelling from a full-bore motorway up to a trunk-road T-junction. As the K13 prowls along an outside line of traffic, snorting like a bison through its Akrapovic when I blip the throttle, it’s worth ruminating on the bike’s history.
Big K’s difficult birth
Launched in 2004 as the smaller-engined K1200S, it wasn’t an auspicious debut. On paper the K was a nerd’s dream: with a standard BMW Paralever shaft-drive rear end, at the front the Telelever arrangement of the R-series flat twins was swapped for a unique double wishbone system called Duolever. But so far, so typically funny front-end BMW. But the engine spec was something else: at 167bhp, the K1200S was the most powerful BMW ever made and put it up alongside Suzuki’s Hayabusa and Kawasaki’s ZX-12R.
Yet the bike was panned for lotterystyle fuelling, suspect high speed stability and poor vibration. BMW cancelled the planned on sale date and spent the best part of a year fixing issues such as cam wear (not for the last time), adding a steering damper and re-mapping the fuelling. The result was a bike that worked – and BMW sold 65,000 K1200-series bikes between 2005 and 2008.
In 2009, it grew in capacity to become the 175bhp K1300S, gained ASC
(rudimentary traction control), threeway electronically adjustable damping called ESA II and an optional quickshifter as well as numerous minor refinements – although the engine still felt gritty on a neutral throttle, as if it was running too lean. And the switchgear routinely failed if left in the sun too long.
On the road to the Ring
Back in Germany, the road to the Ring opens out into typically sinewy, clinically smooth Eifel forest tarmac, passing around tree-lined hills with a relentless cornering rhythm that suits the K1300S’ long wheelbase and its reliable, flowing steering. Its suspension is firm and positive, engine rippling like a flexed bicep as it guns from apex to apex, quickshifter triggering the next gearbox ratio like a revolver (it’s not actually quick; BMW call it ‘shift assist’, but it’s still good fun).
The riding position is classic sportstourer – not the upright pseudo adventure bike which flatters to deceive after eight hours, but semi-sports, canted forward and purposeful. Rewind a few years and you’d say the BMW was surprisingly narrow and agile for a hyper sports bike – today, it feels like a big bike; not cumbersome, but definitely deliberate. The K1300S doesn’t just go somewhere, it gets there like it means it.
We’re heading to the Nürburgring for an evening session – three laps before it gets dark (and, at 28 euros a lap, it’s not the timing so much as the cost). And then the BMW is going to take me straight back home again – another 500 miles and another ten or so hours. It’s a long day.
The Ring is crowded with all sorts of cars, as it often is, and a few bikes. I haven’t been here for many years and can’t remember where I’m going – with the low sun directly in my eyeline around the back of the circuit, I can’t see where I’m going either. I also made the mistake – or not – of watching a few Nürburgring crash compilations on Youtube before I left. It focuses the mind somewhat. As a result, the three laps are pitifully slow in the corners and painfully fast in between.
More than once I’m grateful for the K1300S’ unshakeable steering letting me haul the bike out of a corner having turned into it many yards too early. The motor’s a belter too, with such a flexible power curve that it makes almost any gear the right gear.
Distance destroyer
Three laps complete without leaving anything on the track but my pride, and it’s time to reverse the journey. Back up along the A1, powering silently across into Belgium and fleecing the Brussels ring road in record time, the BMW minimises distance like clicking in the bottom righthand corner of the box and dragging upwards. It’s desktop easy. Fuel stops come and go with 160-mile regularity, but caffeine breaks are for refuelling the brain only; the K’s high speed comfort is absolute. Heated grips warm my hands and a heated jacket gently boils my torso (wired into the battery; the BMW’S 12v socket only has enough grunt to run a sat nav); when sodium lights overhead give way to an inky blackness, the BMW’S astonishingly potent main beam illuminates the immediate future. By the time we get to Calais in the small hours, suffering a few police diversions presumably to avoid refugee roadblocks, the K feels as fresh as it did at the start of the trip.
By the time the scent of home is tantalisingly close, the K is ready for a rest and so am I. But one last push up the back roads is interrupted by a flashing blue light – at this time of the morning? I think the copper is bored and just checking the BM’S not nicked. It’s not. And the speed? Which speed, officer? It’s relative to the observer, and it wasn’t fast where I was sitting.
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It’s such a tragedy that BMW killed it off. I don’t think I’ve EVER read a bad review of the K1300S. There have been a number of issues and some justifiable criticism of some of the “questionable quality†of components, but the fundamentals of the bike appear to get nothing but praise. Even in comparative tests with the likes of the ZZR1400 and the Hayabusa, where, on paper, the K1300S is completely out gunned, it appears to win the hearts of those testing it.
For me, BMW attempting to “replace†the K1300S with the S1000XR is a bit like when someone in the marketing department of Coca-Cola decided to change the recipe for Coke. The new drink was OK, but it wasn’t Coke!
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If you want to read a really scathing review (of the K12S) go to 'Ash on Bikes' and read what Kevin thought of it when he tested it in 2004 prior to the launch. As a direct result of his words the launch was pulled and all the UK bikes (apart from mine) were shipped back to Germany for re-work.
But that was the K12S. His review of the K13S was a lot better 😎
As he said, BMW built the bike for no other reason than that they could. And they did.
And now they dont' 😔
And they are going to lose customers. Those who bought the bike as a commuter can find other bikes as good, long-range commuters like you and Martin aside. Those who bought it for its stunning performance, continent crushing abilty with sublime comfort, good economy and very good scratching ability when they get to the other side will find it a difficult choice.
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> unzipping the motor’s flies to unleash its astonishing midrange bulge
Bit of a dick?
The writer, that is... ;D
The overall sentiment of the piece is about right, though.
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I wonder sometimes especially when you hear such sad stories as Costas's tale of woe.
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I wonder sometimes especially when you hear such sad stories as Costas's tale of woe.
When asked to comment, BMW replied - nothing to do with us Herr. Speak to Ricardo freund, they designed the internals.... ;)
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/12295875/download-simulation-and-analysis-drives-success-for-bmw-ricardo
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At the end of the day it's all down to sales volume. If the K sold as well as the GS then no doubt it would still be in production. That's a shame. :(
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As he said, BMW built the bike for no other reason than that they could. And they did.
And now they dont' 😔
And they are going to lose customers.
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You bet they will. In fact, they already have. Because let's be honest, the sports-touring segment nowadays looks quite a lot poorer than it did some good 5 years ago. Manufacturers in general (not only BMW) nowadays tend to force customers (my feeling) into adventure-like bikes with a marketing message as if these bikes are now the "next-generation" of sports-touring motorbikes. Well, to me, they aren't. To start (and end) with : they lack a sports-touring riding position. Everything nowadays tends towards more upwards riding positions, and to make it even worse : they also tend towards higher seat positions. Hell, why ?
And let's face it, in such a setting, the S1000XR is only a poor replacement. Not poor as a motorbike, but poor as a sports-touring motorbike. Touring ? Most probably. Sporty ? Most probably. Sports-touring ? Hell no. Riding position, remember... Doesn't cut it (for me).
So facing this manufacturers-imposed more upward riding position, there then are a lot of (non-BMW) alternatives. For me, it has been the Suzuki GSX-S1000, a bike I'm calling a (very) poor replacement of the K1300S myself. Even if it has 40 BHP of "sports" more than my (power-limited 106 BHP) K1300S...
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What he said!
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Hah I'd say the Suzuki GSX-S1000 is indeed a very poor replacement, well, not a replacement at all. It's a super naked gsxr1000 thing with less power than the original. :P
Or some other words. My friend bought one and so finally we had a reason to swap bikes. It felt so tiny, what with it being in a gsxr sized package, and not as much nice wind protection meant I had to hold on. And obviously it's far more agile. And tiny.
Did I mention it's tiny? I rode the GSXR1000 a few weeks later and that's probably a closer replacement than the GSXS. But if we go down that road then the S1000RR is the replacement! Which it obviously isn't.
Anyway I'm just annoyed i've got no replacement lined up before my rear drive pisses oil everywhere again and kills me.
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Look on the bright side Matt, if it kills you it saves you the bother of trying to find a replacement 😇
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In my humble opinion, there are only two other sports touring bikes that come anywhere near the K1300S and that's the Busa and the ZZR1400. The rest fail dismally short of real sports tourer enjoyment. As for the GSXR thingy, you may as well buy yourself a Blade and go full sporty.
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...it's the Arthur Eyteys innit...
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In my humble opinion, there are only two other sports touring bikes that come anywhere near the K1300S and that's the Busa and the ZZR1400. The rest fail dismally short of real sports tourer enjoyment. As for the GSXR thingy, you may as well buy yourself a Blade and go full sporty.
Not tried either but I agree with you.
Somehow I think that my next bike might be a big GS.
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See, before I got seduced back into big sports-tourer ownership with the K12S, I had had an R1150GS for ages and always swore I would ride it into the grave. Just not yet a while eh? It was cheap to run, simple to maintain and as long as you didn't try to ride it at K speeds on the motorways, it didn't give you white finger.
A well-ridden GS will stay with almost any big bike on the lanes and normal roads and I got sick of sports bike riders getting in my way in Wales, especially on roundabouts and hairpins in the hills where their inability to ride played right into my hands. And, with the 33litre adventure tank on it it only needed a fuel stop for every two of the others in the group.
It was all day comfortable, had great brakes, didn't dive under hard use and even with Metzeler Tourance tyres on it, it stuck to the road like tarmac. Well, better than tarmac these days. The noise with the BMW sports can on it was a little anti-social but it did wail when pushed.
It was great fun to own, service and ride and even truckers moved over when they saw the bloody great ugly thing bearing down on them, but.....
There is just something about the warp-speed performance of a big, smooth, universal, across the frame four that still tickles my fancy and maybe always will...
Seeing as I have a lunatic KTM 450 EXC in a county with no green lanes, maybe I should swap it for an old 1150GS as the bimble bike. I wouldn't really want a 1200 as there is too much tech getting in the way of the simplicity.
And if I do get too aged for the K then maybe the GS is the bike to ride into the grave after all 👹
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Damn it to heckery. I can see myself buying leg extensions and getting a GS before my next decade at this rate. I'm hoping I can bring myself to get an S1000RR or equivalent before then just so I can pretend to be... an idiot :D.
Loving the idea of a longer time between fuel stops still means i'm a cool kid yeah?
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And I'm hoping they, BMW, will bring out a sports-touring K replacement in some form, i.e.
- long and stable
- not sat bolt upright
- min vibes
- panniers that aren't tin boxes
My guess, backed up by a recent purchase, is it will be at least 5 years or so.
Hey ho.
Of course, Sods law says in 5 years time I may want to sit more upright. Creaky back, knees, etc.
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I am very happy with my GS, but I still miss the K's engine.
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A well-ridden GS will stay with almost any big bike on the lanes and normal roads and I got sick of sports bike riders getting in my way in Wales, especially on roundabouts and hairpins in the hills where their inability to ride played right into my hands. And, ...
Recognisable indeed. A fluent GS rider in front is always kind of a bigger "challenge", for the K, to follow on curvy roads, like e.g. mountains/hairpins.
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And I'm hoping they, BMW, will bring out a sports-touring K replacement in some form, i.e.
- long and stable
- not sat bolt upright
- min vibes
- panniers that aren't tin boxes
My guess, backed up by a recent purchase, is it will be at least 5 years or so.
Hey ho.
Of course, Sods law says in 5 years time I may want to sit more upright. Creaky back, knees, etc.
You don't have to have the skips on the side of a GS. Mine had sensible plastic BM kit with both touring (very wide) and city (very narrow) lids. They no longer do them but Givi are way more sensible for 'normal' non-globe-traversing use.
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However good a GS is, it's not a patch on the K as it's missing 50bhp. You may not use that 50bhp often, but when you do, there's nothing like it.
I tried the ZZR1400 before buying my previous K1300S. It's a close shout as to which is the "best" sports tourer. The K1300S was my choice only because of ESA. If the big Kawasaki had ESA I may well have spent the last 5 years on a ZZR1400.
The Busa may be a very good bike but it's too fugly for my liking.
The KTM 1290 Super Duke GT and the new Kawasaki H2 SX both look like very good "proper" sports tourer alternatives for the defunct K1300S, I'll let you know by the end of the summer which is the best! :D
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Sat on the H2 SX at NEC, not comfy for tall me. But I'm not normal sized, so a pinch of salt needed there.
Bizarrely, the comfiest bike was the K1600 Bagger. Sometimes I really scare myself.
That's it! Yer banned and don't come back...
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However good a GS is, it's not a patch on the K as it's missing 50bhp. You may not use that 50bhp often, but when you do, there's nothing like it.
I tried the ZZR1400 before buying my previous K1300S. It's a close shout as to which is the "best" sports tourer. The K1300S was my choice only because of ESA. If the big Kawasaki had ESA I may well have spent the last 5 years on a ZZR1400.
The Busa may be a very good bike but it's too fugly for my liking.
The KTM 1290 Super Duke GT and the new Kawasaki H2 SX both look like very good "proper" sports tourer alternatives for the defunct K1300S, I'll let you know by the end of the summer which is the best! :D
I will tell you now its the KTM 1290 SDGT it wins hands down. 8) ;D ;D
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The KTM 1290 Super Duke GT and the new Kawasaki H2 SX both look like very good "proper" sports tourer alternatives for the defunct K1300S, ...
No criticism on your choices, but I myself don't count the Super Duke 1290 amongst the sports-tourers. Powerful tourers aren't necessarily sports-tourers :-X
I don't buy the marketing sh.t manufacturers try to feed me : no, a powerful tourer is not what I call a sports-tourer, and even more so if they are upright-seated or high-seated...
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Yeah I need to try the KTM once I've accepted how much I'll end up spending on a replacement. Trouble is as you say, it feels more sitty uppy. But for the ktm I might try it.
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The KTM 1290 Super Duke GT and the new Kawasaki H2 SX both look like very good "proper" sports tourer alternatives for the defunct K1300S, ...
No criticism on your choices, but I myself don't count the Super Duke 1290 amongst the sports-tourers. Powerful tourers aren't necessarily sports-tourers :-X
I don't buy the marketing sh.t manufacturers try to feed me : no, a powerful tourer is not what I call a sports-tourer, and even more so if they are upright-seated or high-seated...
I'm interested to understand how you define the difference between a "powerful" tourer and a "sports" tourer.
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I'm interested to understand how you define the difference between a "powerful" tourer and a "sports" tourer.
Can I have a go?
(Not a definition - just an example.)
"powerful" tourer: K1600GT
"sports" tourer: K1300S
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I'm interested to understand how you define the difference between a "powerful" tourer and a "sports" tourer.
Can I have a go?
(Not a definition - just an example.)
"powerful" tourer: K1600GT
"sports" tourer: K1300S
But surely the K1600GT is just a "tourer"?
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Hmm! We've seen some good piccies of a K16 scaring the living bejeesus out of all and sundry at track days, so it can certainly scratch more than it looks lime it should. As can the GS.
I think (not very often, but very occasionally) that until you have ridden a day on another marque's bike, you don't know the bike.
I spent a year getting my Honda CBR1000F-H back on the road after 22 years in a mates garage.
Don't ask!
I rode it to and around Wales one Easter weekend instead of taking the GS and realised that I still had a Super Sports-Tourer hooligan lurking deep inside me.
This was the very same 130PS, 168 mph (180 indicated) bike I had ridden non-stop to the Med, twice, once with a pillion on the return trip and had never had so much as a bum twinge. But that was 25 years previously and in Wales it nearly crippled me. It had me in tears on the M4 on the way home it was sooo uncomfortable for my now aged body.
The K12/13 by comparison was almost all-day for me from the outset. An Airhawk bum cushion for Med trips on the boring motorways and Helibars and Bob, as they say....
As to whether power makes for sports-touring is a matter of taste. As is the riding position. The GS felt sooo wrong after being used to a crouch but once you are dialled in it is way more comfortable and the GS chassis way more capable than its looks would lead you to imagine.
So, whether the 'sports' bit of sports-touring is to do with speed and agility when you get to where you are going and the 'touring' bit about comfort on the way there and what you can take with you, the bike you choose to do it on is all down to very personal tastes but the 85bhp of the GS 1150 did not make for rapid and cool high-speed cruising, I'll grant you that.
Personally, I'm just grateful that I'm a low mileage rider these days and my K might last me. Or even outlast me 😎
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The front end of that Superduke really cracks me up. ;D Have a look at that headlight and think of human biology. Apologies to Kim. No offence intended.
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But surely the K1600GT is just a "tourer"?
I think 160 BHP equates to 'powerful' on any bike. ;)
Your average adventure or tourer is 100 - 140 BHP:
Suzuki V-Strom 100 - 100 BHP
BMW 1200 - 125 BHP
Honda Pan European - 117 BHP
Honda VFR1200X Crosstourer - 127 BHP
Triumph 1200 - 140 BHP
Then there are some bigger beasts:
Yamaha FJR1300 - 144 BHP
Kawasaki GTR1400 - 158 BHP
BMW K1600 - 160 BHP
And finally ones with sportier pretentions - nearly always 150 BHP or more:
Ducati Multistrada - 156+ BHP
BMW S1000XR - 160 BHP
KTM SuperDuke - 160+ BHP
Honda VFR1200F - 170 BHP
K1300S - 175 BHP
Kawasaki H2 SX - 200- BHP
Kawasaki ZZR1400 - 197-207 BHP
Of course, the weight of a K1600 takes the edge off performance, but then again 'powerful' and 'power-to-weight' are different things.
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I'm interested to understand how you define the difference between a "powerful" tourer and a "sports" tourer.
For me, it starts with a sporty seat position. A LOT of bikes nowadays marketed as sport-tourers don't even start to come close to that. There's a big difference in the marketing story manufacturers tell you, and what I finally believe of that story. Some stories are made to be believed, but this sports-tourer marketing story of the manufacturers of nowadays isn't one of them. And as I am the customer, I'm always right 8)
It's not because they try to tell me the food is good, that I like it, let alone that I'd eat it. There's a nasty aftertaste...
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I'm interested to understand how you define the difference between a "powerful" tourer and a "sports" tourer.
For me, it starts with a sporty seat position. A LOT of bikes nowadays marketed as sport-tourers don't even start to come close to that. There's a big difference in the marketing story manufacturers tell you, and what I finally believe of that story. Some stories are made to be believed, but this sports-tourer marketing story of the manufacturers of nowadays isn't one of them. And as I am the customer, I'm always right 8)
It's not because they try to tell me the food is good, that I like it, let alone that I'd eat it. There's a nasty aftertaste...
An interesting approach. Does the addition of a set of bar risers and a raised screen stop a K1300S from being a sports tourer? :D
I would suggest that a bike being a sports tourer is more about the design approach than the seating position, although it does have some bearing.
Any bike where performance, handling, power to weight etc. are all well up the design priorities has, for me, some form of claim on the “sports†tag. Add in removable integral luggage, longer range/comfort, slightly better weather protection and some form of realistic pillion capability and you get a sports tourer.
The only “fly in the ointment†are the adventure bikes. To me, these are now a styling exercise where a suggestion of (originally genuine) off road capability, long travel suspension, tall seat, “rugged†luggage and integral crash bars are applied to bikes with sports, sports touring and tourer capabilities but, in doing so, removing them from the sports, sports touring and tourer categories.
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The only “fly in the ointment†are the adventure bikes. To me, these are now a styling exercise where a suggestion of (originally genuine) off road capability, long travel suspension, tall seat, “rugged†luggage and integral crash bars are applied to bikes with sports, sports touring and tourer capabilities but, in doing so, removing them from the sports, sports touring and tourer categories.
A bit like a 4x4, but 2x2, and without the bonus of all-wheel drive.
It's selling a dream to 99% of owners. Only 1% are actually living the dream - farmers, emergency folks, and Steve in Wales.
I'm always amused by adverts for both types of vehicle - a car/bike heading off-road into the desert:
"Freedom - yeah!"
In Slough?
Only one disagreement with your statement, though. I think you could easily tour on the bigger adventure bikes, in capable hands.
But most people don't buy them for that - they're bought to look big. Literally.
I usually do the opposite - buy the smallest car/bike I can fit into/onto physically. Which is tricky when you're my size. ::)
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The only “fly in the ointment†are the adventure bikes. To me, these are now a styling exercise where a suggestion of (originally genuine) off road capability, long travel suspension, tall seat, “rugged†luggage and integral crash bars are applied to bikes with sports, sports touring and tourer capabilities but, in doing so, removing them from the sports, sports touring and tourer categories.
A bit like a 4x4, but 2x2, and without the bonus of all-wheel drive.
It's selling a dream to 99% of owners. Only 1% are actually living the dream - farmers, emergency folks, and Steve in Wales.
I'm always amused by adverts for both types of vehicle - a car/bike heading off-road into the desert:
"Freedom - yeah!"
In Slough?
Only one disagreement with your statement, though. I think you could easily tour on the bigger adventure bikes, in capable hands.
But most people don't buy them for that - they're bought to look big. Literally.
I usually do the opposite - buy the smallest car/bike I can fit into/onto physically. Which is tricky when you're my size. ::)
I absolutely agree that you can tour on the bigger adventure bikes (and that they'll be pretty damn good at it!) but being good at touring doesn't , for me, make an adventure bike into a tourer or a sports tourer. It's still an adventure bike! After all, Nick Saunders toured around the world on an R1 but no one would suggest the R1 was a tourer. It's still a sports bike.
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I would suggest that a bike being a sports tourer is more about the design approach than the seating position, although it does have some bearing.
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That's why, for me, it starts with a sporty seat position : any bike not having a sporty seat position is, by design, not a sports-tourer. Or should I say, a sports-tourer bike has, by design, a sporty seat position ;)
Power-to-weight ratio ? Not even all that important. Just to name one : the VFR800F has a (considerably) lower power-to-weight ration than the SD 1290. However, while I consider the first a proper (altough less powerful) sports-tourer, I don't consider the latter to be a sports-tourer. How hard KTM tries to make me believe it indeed is a sports-tourer, well to me, it isn't.
P.S. please take no offence, nothing personal, this is just my opinion ...
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I would suggest that a bike being a sports tourer is more about the design approach than the seating position, although it does have some bearing.
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That's why, for me, it starts with a sporty seat position : any bike not having a sporty seat position is, by design, not a sports-tourer. Or should I say, a sports-tourer bike has, by design, a sporty seat position ;)
Power-to-weight ratio ? Not even all that important. Just to name one : the VFR800F has a (considerably) lower power-to-weight ration than the SD 1290. However, while I consider the first a proper (altough less powerful) sports-tourer, I don't consider the latter to be a sports-tourer. How hard KTM tries to make me believe it indeed is a sports-tourer, well to me, it isn't.
P.S. please take no offence, nothing personal, this is just my opinion ...
No offence taken and none intended. If you can't debate alternative opinions on a subject specific forum "as grown ups" where can you have such a debate?
The VFR800 is always going to be down on power to weight, it's lacking 500cc, but I agree, it's a sports tourer.
As for the KTM, I think we'll just have to disagree on that. For me it's not an adventure bike, despite the more upright riding position. The power, weight and overall handling all point to it's sportier pretensions but with the luggage and decent range it definitely has touring aspirations.
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You're all wrong, including me!
Seeing as a 'sports' bike is as much an anachranism as a 'sports' car, any bike that anyone uses for sport is a sport bike. To them. One meaningful definition might be one stripped to the bare bones and with no sophisticated or unnecessary add-ons, that's sure what a sports car 'used' to be.
Likewise, any bike that anyone tours on is a tourer. To them.
Seeing as we don't understand what the universal definition of sport is (let's face it, football to most, seemingly) and touring can be anything from a lone rider with nothing but a credit card to pack, right up to the tent and kitchen sink brigade who would be in caravans if they were car drivers, then the very definition of a Sports-Tourer is open to individual interpretation.
The Vietnamese (or Thai?) riders who rocked up at Costas's BMW dealership in Athens on Honda 90's (or whatever they were) with plastic crates tie-wrapped to the back were sure as hell doing more touring than I did that year and possibly more than most of us.
If they enjoyed scaring the living bejeesus out of themselves chucking the bikes round the lanes when they stopped for a few days and considered that to be 'sport', then to them the Honda 90 was a sports-tourer.
The sad thing is that whatever you use your K12/13 for, there are precious few bikes out there to replace it when it comes time to change.
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But surely the K1600GT is just a "tourer"?
I think 160 BHP equates to 'powerful' on any bike. ;)
Your average adventure or tourer is 100 - 140 BHP:
Suzuki V-Strom 100 - 100 BHP
BMW 1200 - 125 BHP
Honda Pan European - 117 BHP
Honda VFR1200X Crosstourer - 127 BHP
Triumph 1200 - 140 BHP
Then there are some bigger beasts:
Yamaha FJR1300 - 144 BHP
Kawasaki GTR1400 - 158 BHP
BMW K1600 - 160 BHP
And finally ones with sportier pretentions - nearly always 150 BHP or more:
Ducati Multistrada - 156+ BHP
BMW S1000XR - 160 BHP
KTM SuperDuke - 160+ BHP
Honda VFR1200F - 170 BHP
K1300S - 175 BHP
Kawasaki H2 SX - 200- BHP
Kawasaki ZZR1400 - 197-207 BHP
Of course, the weight of a K1600 takes the edge off performance, but then again 'powerful' and 'power-to-weight' are different things.
The KTM SDR is 179 BHP @ 8870 RPM as standard, with a wet weight of 449lbs The SDGT is 173 BHP @ 8870RPM weight 452 lbs.
last year I did 3500 miles in a week with a 60ltr box on the back with no problem and riding with GS and others, this year its going to be 4500 miles in two weeks with two up,
at weekends I go out with the lads on BMW1000R and all they see is my number plate, I would call that a Sports tourer with extra power. :D :D :D
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Interesting debate, as an owner of a K12 and having previously owned: 1150GS (one of the original pre Charlie and Ewan press bikes and I did 120k on it), KTM 990 (only 40k) Blackird... Awful got rid... ZZR1100 and a few sports bikes... Mille Factory, R1
I didn't ever see my big trailies as 'sports tourers' I did shed loads of miles on them and plenty of touring but ultimately they were always 'cruisy' bikes... At any serious speed on cross continental trips they were always a poor compromise... Beefy luggage = weave... Minimal fairings and odd screen shapes caused me no end of buffeting... However at the other end, on twiddly back roads with the luggage off they were a hoot.
I kind of view the K12 as I do GT cars... You know the sort of front engined V12, like a Scaglietti or a Vantage.. A bit lazy, classic lines, need a bit of muscle and patience to handle... Smooth, quick long distance runners and scare the pants off you fast when you feel like it and kind of subtle, which suits me down to the ground as my hair gets greyer.
I really like the K, I also kind of like the fact that not that many people are finding them 'fashionable' means they'll only get rarer and that's cool... It's still a damn fine looking bike.
In fact I bought mine because when I had my GS one of my friends that went to the Moto GPs with me had one and it was always brilliant on those long trips... and I was always covetous of the thing... and it looked great.
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Yeah. Not much on the horizon for "sport tourers". My K1200 looks good, is pretty comfortable and loves to go fast. Seemingly effortless power. You get hooked on that. I wish I could trust it more, i.e. brakes but will figure that out. With full Remus exhaust the bike sounds awesome.
The market for sport n sport tour bikes has shrunk I guess, thus the adv bikes. I'm happy to be part of the sport tour bunch. There are so many Harley's here n cruisers. Not interested.
Enjoy your K bikes folks.
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I went to look at a K1600, but it didn't have all the bells and whistles and while I was thinking about it some more, spotted the K1300 and fell head over hells right there and then. Did the deal without even test-riding it. A bike needs to be special and for me the K is that.