Author Topic: Goretex  (Read 3248 times)

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Offline fjtwelve

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Goretex
« on: September 30, 2020, 04:44:03 pm »
Just received this from Motolegends. Anyone else know what's going on?


"In future, if your Gore-Tex products leak, you're supposed to only deal directly with Gore Associates.
A new policy from Gore Associates

Like many sellers of Gore-Tex clothing, and like all manufacturers of clothing made with a Gore-Tex membrane, we have only very recently been informed of new procedures surrounding waterproofing claims on Gore-Tex equipped gear.
 
From October 1st. 2020, (tomorrow), all complaints regarding waterproofing or leaking issues have to be referred directly to Gore. As a retailer, we are no longer permitted to become involved in discussions about water ingress on Gore-Tex products. We will not be able to discuss such matters with the UK distributor or the manufacturer. And nor will you.
 
Gore has set up a direct line of communication with the company that will allow you to address any issues directly with them. If a garment is found to be leaking, and if Gore deem the fault to be a leak through the membrane, they will repair or replace the garment, or refund the purchase price.
 
The details of the scheme have not yet been fully clarified, even though the new policy comes into effect tomorrow. But one can only presume that, because you can no longer pop your jacket, pants, gloves or boots into your local dealer, the Gore company will arrange free delivery to their testing house. Presumably, whether the garments are found to leak or not, they will also take care of the return of your product at their cost.

The new policy will apply to any product  with a Gore-Tex membrane, be it a jacket, pant, glove or boot.

This new way of working has been sprung upon retailers and distributors at the very last minute. All we can say is that we are not impressed with the proposed new methodology, and how it has been rolled out. Let me correct that; this scheme has not been rolled out. It has been peremptorily foisted upon retailers like us without any consultation, forewarning or discussion.
 
We also take the view that Gore’s methodology does not sit well with the current consumer legislation, certainly insofar as it applies in the UK. We will be seeking legal advice, but the system proposed by Gore seems to elicit more questions than answers.
 
We also have to say that it seems, to us, inconceivable that Gore will have adequately prepared itself to anywhere near the necessary degree to respond to consumer enquiries. There is a toll-free number (00 800 2314 4000). Alternatively, you are meant to fill in a form on their website, and wait until Gore get back to you. But whenever we’ve seen centralised facilities like this set up before, they have singularly failed to meet the demands placed upon them. Language alone will be a problem. Gore proudly proclaim that they can transact in six different languages, but this seems to ignore the fact that in Europe alone there are no less than 24 official languages. Only time will tell how prepared Gore is, but we feel we understand motorcyclists, and no biker is going to want to wait longer than is necessary for a response. They will want a swift resolution. And they will not want to end up out of pocket.

And what do you do if you have a Gore-Tex jacket and it disappears overseas for testing?
Will they offer a loan garment whilst yours is in their system?

We have perhaps made our personal views clear. We will have to wait to see what happens, because Gore is claiming that this new arrangement will give bikers a better and swifter resolution to matters surrounding water ingress and breathability. We remain sceptical. And our suspicion is that the procedures have been set up to reduce the financial burden involved in managing such issues, rather than in order to improve the consumer experience.
 
The way this has been managed by Gore disappoints us because we have always championed the company’s products and the quality of the procedures that have to be adhered to when a manufacturer uses a Gore-Tex membrane. My own view is that Gore is going to upset a lot of bikers, although the same system will apply to all Gore’s ‘Guaranteed To Keep You Dry’ products. So it’s also going to be ramblers, climbers, runners and cyclists who are affected. And if this new system is going to upset customers, it is going to concern retailers like us. And if retailers and distributors become nervous, then this will presumably cause manufacturers to think twice about using Gore’s membranes.
 
I am reminded of the much-cited marketeer’s adage about how long it can take to build a brand that consumers truly trust, and how quickly that trust can be eroded. I very much hope that Gore has done all the necessary due diligence here, but the lack of consultation and the way information about the new policy has been disseminated causes me to fear the worst!

Christopher Paul"

Offline armstrongracer

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2020, 05:02:02 pm »
Stinks of BS to me. As a purchaser your contract is with the vendor. That's how consumer legislation works.

Offline richtea

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2020, 05:15:33 pm »
Stinks of BS to me. As a purchaser your contract is with the vendor. That's how consumer legislation works.

BS on Gore's part, not Motolegends, who seem to be rightly mortified.

Time to check other competing materials/manufacturers, methinks.

Offline Phmode

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2020, 05:53:42 pm »
Bin bags to the fore methinks  8)

Offline chriscanning

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2020, 05:59:08 pm »
i’ll Be doing what is now called ‘Doing a Brian’ i’ll rush home and get me car   :)

Offline Phmode

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2020, 06:09:18 pm »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

...and I have to say, the waterproofing is faultless.

Offline Swindon Andy

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2020, 06:25:55 pm »
I got a wet toe last time out with my Alpinestars goretex lined boots. Stood in a puddle. I wasn't expecting perfection, but should I? They're  a good few years old, I'm not going to complain, just interested in how water tight they normally are.

Offline fjtwelve

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2020, 09:53:20 pm »
Mr Gore the inventor of said material, who died a couple of weeks back, must be spinning

Offline raesewell

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2020, 09:55:35 pm »
If you have Gore-Tex boots they shouldn't leak at all, send em back and test the new system.

Offline black-k1

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2020, 09:12:07 am »
I can see how all this has come about. The Gore-Tex name has a very high brand value and needs to be protected. The last thing Gore want is their reputation being put at risk when the local bike shop send the leaking garment to the local seamstress to stitch in a patch of bin liner. That, or the named garment manufacturer sending it off to their own sweat shop in the far east for them to stitch in said bin liner patch.

Gore assure their product so if the issue is leaking then no-one else can repair that product.

What will inevitably happen to meet with UK (and European) law is that if the issue relates to water ingress then the customer will be able to send to Gore directly. Under consumer law they will also be able to take it back to the retailer who will send it to Gore on the customers behalf. If the issue relates to other quality concerns then then it'll be back to the retailer as it is at the moment.

The existing consumer laws allow the retailer a "reasonable time" to address an issue so sending a garment back to Gore on behalf of the customer would be within the legal requirements.

This feels like a huge storm over nothing. (As far as Motolegends are concerned). While Gore are "throwing their weight around" and not showing due consideration, for me, going public with this shows poor business management on Motolegends part. A simple reply to Gore saying that to meet the stated requirements would potentially put Motolegends in breach of local law, and that until the situation is clarified they'd continue to act on the customers behalf was all that was required.

Since the term "Twitter Storm" was first used, people seem to take delight in being "outraged" at what are actually pretty mediocre, mundane issues.
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Offline black-k1

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2020, 09:13:40 am »
If you have Gore-Tex boots they shouldn't leak at all, send em back and test the new system.

Most Gore-Tex is assured for 5 years. If within that period, then sending back is the right thing.
Correct rear brake use is scientifically proven to shorten stopping distances in EVERY road situation.

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Offline richtea

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2020, 09:55:27 am »
Good points, David. But I'd be well naffed off by the process. I think the directive was probably written from a US point of view, not a European one, so they're ignoring the local regs - but as you say they'll still apply.

There's a garment manufacturer in the chain of responsibility too:
- customer -> retailer -> manufacturer -> Gore

It's going to be confusing for everyone (except Gore), and it seems unhinged to bypass the retailer because they're able to deflect a lot of crap (clothing & customer opinion/anger) before it's sent to Gore. That's the added value.

Instead, with the revised process the retailer gets serious grief, and the customer a much less satisfactory outcome.

I wear leathers, by the way - Smugtm Leathers.

Offline Matt

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2020, 10:21:37 am »
All the words from Gore here, along with a FAQ. I was hoping for something regarding retailers but no mention that I can see.

I'm trying to find if any other distributers/retailers have notices or words to suggest a route different to the standard but don't see anything yet. Sportsbikeshop has nowt and they decent.

Interesting. Motolegends are super duper as regards service, but I have thought occasionally their emails, whilst 'friendly' are a little too 'informal'. As you say David, the outrage card and playing the victim quite so soon... reminds me of ill-written work emails from upset people.

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Offline black-k1

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2020, 10:32:11 am »
I understand Motolegends being well naffed off but that's business. Suppliers mess you about! Deal with it! The last thing you should be doing is throwing your teddy in the direction of the retail customers.

Gore don't have names and addresses of customers so customers won't know what they've said/done unless Motolegends tell them. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. If Gore do some form of advertising campaign then a simple message to customers from Motolegends saying that under UK law, they are still responsible for the garments so the customer is still very welcome to return them to the shop if there are issues is all that is required.

Having worked with a number of US firms I'm very aware that there are often understanding shortfalls that the world does not consist of 50 states and that everyone doesn't "do it like them". 

I wear leathers too so equally smug - except, I also have Gore-Tex kit! D'Oh! :D

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Offline Matt

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Re: Goretex
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2020, 11:52:57 am »
I understand Motolegends being well naffed off but that's business. Suppliers mess you about! Deal with it! The last thing you should be doing is throwing your teddy in the direction of the retail customers.

...

Especially since really you should focus the customer mind on positive experiences, not a wall of text about the what-if that you don't want to be considering. Especially since you gone 'up market' by going to Motolegends or Gore-tex in the first place. Small companies eh! Maybe my new job could be "Small Business Common Sense Strategy Advisor".
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