Weight and subsequent oversteer

[alaskier]

As per an earlier post I swapped my old K1300GT for a new (to me) 2022 K1600GT a few weeks ago. The new bike is absolutely fantastic except for its enormous weight and consequent oversteer. Do other K1600 riders have problems with their bike’s weight and if so how do they manage it, especially when riding under 10mph and/or manoeuvring tight spots. At the moment it is quite embarrassing turning right into my drive as I sometimes end up in my neighbour’s drive! I find that using the Road or even the Rain mode helps but it is still difficult to execute tight turns, especially with my wife on board. Gawd knows what it will be like in the summer when we tour Europe!!

Any help will be gratefully received.

Tony

[Phmode]

Do you mean oversteer, where the front tightens the turn and/or the back appears to come round to bite you on the elbow?

Or do you mean understeer, where the front plows on and the bike makes a wider turn than you intended?

With a big, heavy bike I would have assumed the problem would be understeer but what do I know?

Heavy bikes plow on or understeer mostly because the rider doesn't lean the bike into the turn for fear of dropping it, especially at very low speed. Pulling out of T junctions is my nightmare, that and trying to turn into my drive which is an uphill hairpin turn right on a gravelly surface. The Hendon shuffle has nothing on me trying to get into my drive…

[Matt]

Haha your drive entry/exit features in a lot of top tens I reckon

I think it was easiest on my GS, worst on my K, and somewhere in-between on the KTM.

Also yeah in pedantic mode, over/understeer is about losing traction and sliding aboot right. Are we talking about lack of leverage? Using Bri's example, those T junctions on a nice high, wide bar bike such as the GS or KTM are much easier to get right.

[Phmode]

Not necessarily about losing traction. Oversteer on a road bike is not normally an issue. Race bikes are set up to allow the rear wheel to slide out on the throttle which has the effect of tightening the radius of a turn giving the feeling that the bike is over steering or steering more than your input at the bars would normally get you.

In the car world, rear-drive cars give more oversteer  whilst front-drive cars give more understeer, tending to plow on in a straight line when you turn the wheel.

Understeer is considered the more easy to control trait and is thought of as safer for the average Joe.

The ultimate oversteery car is something like a Porsche 911 with all the weight at the back and gobs of power meaning in the extreme the back does lose grip and swings out making the car head for hills.

On a bike, the turning effect at anything above, say 10-15mph is effected by counter steering the bars which makes the bike drop into the corner and go round it. This doesn't work at lower speeds so when you turn the bars there is no counter-steering (obviously, as you are turning the bars in the direction you want to slowly go) and the front end simply tries to go straight on (or that is what it feels like) if the bike is heavy or you are trying to turn in deep gravel.

[alaskier]

Thank you both for your comments. I mean that the front ploughs on and the bike makes a far wider turn than I had intended and this only happens at low speeds, probably less than 10mph. As you say, I worry terribly about dropping it, both for the expensive damage it will cause and also for picking it up again!

From what you say it sounds as though this is another little foible I shall have to get used to but I would be interested to hear how other K16 owners deal with it

[raesewell]

Maybe you could get yourself on a slow riding course? 

[alaskier]

I am beginning to think that endless practise might be the answer. The problem is that it is a RH turn into my drive with a sharp bend in front. It is not too bad if nothing is coming towards me but if I am set up to execute the turn and a car or van suddenly appears in front of me things start to go awry… So far the oncoming vehicles have not been too aggressive…

[Phmode]

I shouldn't say this, but apart from a silly flirtation with an old Rolls Royce back in '65, I have never come off a bike at speed, on the road.

I dropped my Honda 900 doing a U-turn on the Basingstoke Road in Reading back in 1975.

I lowered my Honda CBR1000 gently to the ground whilst taking it off its centre-stand in 2012 (after I forgot about the rubber side-stand tip) in 2012.

I dropped my K12S at the top of a ramp on the steel deck of a cross-channel ferry in 2013.

All my terrors about riding a bike end above 15mph and start again as soon as I drop below 10...

I once followed a group of bikers in Wales and tail-end Charlie had 'training wheels' that came down as soon as he dropped to walking pace and popped back up as soon as he set off. I remember thinking 'Wow! That's what I need.'

[raesewell]

Take a look at this
https://youtu.be/gvFpGHarOO0?si=S3qT12i7owym_pAT
I'm not suggesting you aspire to this standard but it shows what can  be done once you have the confidence.

[alaskier]

Training wheels - that is what I need!! You don’t have any idea where he got them from do you? Or did he somehow fabricate them himself?

Out of interest you could probably count the number of times I have dropped my motorbikes since I started riding back in 1972 on one hand. Then I bought my K1300GT in 2011 which I dropped no less than six times and on each occasion it was either stationary or walking speed. I am beginning to wonder whether I am getting too old for motorcycling.

[raesewell]

Perform a Google search for motorcycle landing gear, very expensive.

[andym2]

Take a look at this
https://youtu.be/gvFpGHarOO0?si=S3qT12i7owym_pAT
I'm not suggesting you aspire to this standard but it shows what can  be done once you have the confidence.

An absolute beginner compared to Chris Pfeiffer (RIP) though... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsLO05UZyi8

[alaskier]

Thank you all for your help and best wishes. Having looked at “motorcycle landing gear” I don’t think it is something for me!

Having thought about it each time I dropped the K13 it was because I put my foot down and there was either nothin there or if there was it was it was so low it was beyond the point of no return. Once it was because my foot slipped on loose gravel.  I didn’t have a problem riding it at low speeds, just with the weight.

I have looked at a number of slow riding techniques on Google and think that my best idea is, as I said earlier, to have a “practise day” to get used to the enormous weight, throttle control, clutch biting point and hopefully boost my confidence.

Cheers all,
Tony

[Matt]

Low speed is where we switch from counter steering to actually steering isn't it. And counter-counter-counter-intuitively it feels more difficult to steer the 'correct' way. As I say, having the wide bars and leverage makes it easier, for me at least. But also, as everyone rightly says, training too. Until then, ride the clutch like it's your CBT again

Do people fit aftermarket higher/wider bars to the 1600?

[black-k1]

This is, most likely,  another "look where you want to go" issue. While the bike is heavy and ponderous,  it sounds like you are not looking far enough into the distance.  Watch the US plod on their slow, lumbering HDs on the bike gymkhana and watch where they are looking when doing tight turns.