EuroKClub
Welcome to the BMW K1200 K1300 K1600 Forum => I'll show you mine if you show me yours! => Who's Who? => black-k1's Bikes => Topic started by: black-k1 on March 03, 2019, 03:41:52 pm
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Collected yesterday - 02/Mar/19 :D
(http://www.old-gits.org/images/DavidMc_Pics/20190302_141523.jpg)
(http://www.old-gits.org/images/DavidMc_Pics/20190302_151047.jpg)
(http://www.old-gits.org/images/DavidMc_Pics/20190302_151144.jpg)
(http://www.old-gits.org/images/DavidMc_Pics/20190302_151437.jpg)
(http://www.old-gits.org/images/DavidMc_Pics/20190302_151522.jpg)
Well, after 6 years of K1300S ownership (3 years on a Sport and 3 years on a MotorSport), preceded by 5 years of K1200S ownership, I've finally stepped away from riding a BMW. As many will have read https://eurokclub.bike/index.php?topic=3301.0 I was disappointed that BMW did not offer a replacement for the K1300S and felt there was nothing else on the market that could do what the K1300S could do. That was, until I tried the H2 SX!
I'm now the proud owner of a Ninja H2 SX SE Performance Tourer (to give it its full model designation), and what a bike it is. Pretty much everything the K1300S did well (which was a lot!) the H2 SX does slightly better. It feels lighter (though it's not), goes quicker, is just as comfortable and has more luggage space.
I'll update this thread as time goes on to see if living with it is as easy as living with a K1300S. Fingers crossed. :D
Shame about the weather today. :(
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Bit of photo shrinking needed, David!
But it looks shiny shiny.
[right button -> View image is a quick way to view them at a sensible resolution, by the way]
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Very BIG bike and very green...and at least your little deer incident saved you the embarrassment of having the dealer offer you peanuts as a trade-in for a bike he probably didn't want.
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Pictures are the size that work on the Old Gits website.
I wasn't too worried about the low trade in value on my previous bikes as, they're company bikes and I can sell them to one of the Old Gits at the trade in price, meaning the company gets it's money and the Old Git gets a real bargain.
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A pretty lady indeed - bet she's a goer eh. Nudge nudge.
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A pretty lady indeed - bet she's a goer eh. Nudge nudge.
Not had the opportunity to pick her skirts up yet but she does have a reputation. Ooh er Mrs! :D
;)
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Congrats an excellent choice and they always say the green is faster , well ware enjoy .🏍🦚
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I made it all the way through the CRT years without getting square eyes, but this has done it! :P
This forum doesn't do auto-resizing of images unfortunately.
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That does look pretty.
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That does look pretty.
The green I definitely like. The pointy bits on the front? Not so sure about them. Although they'd certainly sort out a recalcitrant deer.
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The green I definitely like. The pointy bits on the front? Not so sure about them. Although they'd certainly sort out a recalcitrant deer.
There is a recurring theme with the Japanese and ritual disembowelment isn't there - not heard it applied to Venison before though.
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:D
Thanks all for the complimentary comments. I will start by saying I have no intention of testing the deer disembowelling capabilities of the front end! Once is enough thank you!
The styling is supposed to closely follow the H2 and H2R, thus keeping the “family resemblance†for the super charged bikes.
The green is actually even nicer than it appears in the pictures. The paint lacquer contains gold flecks which catch the sun (when it’s out) and make it “sparkleâ€.
I’m now just waiting for the drier, warmer days when I can get some miles on it and get it run in. While easily “quick enough†when being run in, there’s still that little nagging voice in my head that won’t go away until I’ve made the official mileage, and thus I won’t get full enjoyment from the bike.
The first big improvement over the K1300S that I have discovered is that it actually has storage space under the seat! Not quite enough to put a full waterproof oversuit in, but enough for a decent disk lock and a few small tools.
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But really importantly - who owns the GTR?
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But really importantly - who owns the GTR?
No idea. It was at the dealers when I collected the bike.
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If you add a width parameter to your image code, you can resize them to whatever size you like.
Example:
[img width=800]your image url[/img]
I snuck in and did David's for him, above, just to prove it works.
Clicking on them pops them to fullsize. Another click shrinks them back down.
Clever old Simple Machines!
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Thanks Rich
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Wow, that looks nice!
Some of the angles make that screen look a bit 'long', but i guess that's inevitable!
Can't wait to try one!
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Probably the only bike on the market that would tempt me to replace the K13 at the moment.
It's lovely in that colour and the superchargers sound amazing.
Would be very interested to hear your opinion on the headlights after your first night spin.
Needs a topbox to really set off the styling ;)
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Nice bike. I tested one last year and did wring its neck here and there. Yes it is very very quick. I know what you mean that it feels lighter, but I preferred the heavier more sturdy feel of the K when I got back on it, although would probably get used to the H2 soon enough. It might even have been the grip puppies I missed.
I'm not planning to change any time soon, but if I did, could well be one of these. Or maybe I'm getting old enough for a Harley ;D.
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If I keep up only going to the office like 3 times a week then maybe the service interval isn't as painful as I think!
Justify justify justify!
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Never realised that service cost pain was less if incurred on infrequent journeys ::)
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I had the first proper ride on the H2 SX SE today, as in, the first ride just for the fun of it, rather than the test ride or getting it back from the dealers.
In Summary – what an incredible, brilliant, phenomenal, superb, amazing engine! The K1300S engine was always good, with power to spare, everywhere and with more torque than a WI meeting, but, the H2 SX engine knocks it into a cocked hat! And I’m still running it in and keeping it below about 7000rpm! It is near electric motor smooth with electric motor torque wherever you are, whatever speed you’re doing, but still with the excitement, pomp and circumstance that goes with an internal combustion engine.
The gearbox is quiet, slick and light. Something no BMW gearbox I’ve owned for the last 30+ years could be accused of. That said, the quick shifter on the H2 SX is not as sweet as on the K1300S on the up changes except under reasonably brisk acceleration. However, the H2 SX also has a downshifter that works really well.
A perfect match for that breath-taking engine!
The handling is crisp and light and the loss of 100mm of wheelbase is noticeable into and through the corners. The H2 SX feels stable and planted up to 90mph (as fast as I’ve gone) but flicks much more easily from side to side than the K1300S did. The “real time†lean angle gauge on the dash is excellent entertainment although tends not to get noticed mid serious corner. :D (41 degrees on the left and 36 degrees on the right being my current high scores!)
And, in case I haven’t mentioned it, the engine is just monstrous!!!
However, as you would expect, it’s not all good news. The brakes are excellent in general use but only good when used in earnest. I always thought the K1300S had the best brakes of any motorcycle and the H2 SX won’t be taking that crown. Add in the expected dive from tele forks (which I will get used to again, eventually) and the overall brakes experience is not as good as I’ve grown used to.
However, the engine is nothing less than stupendous!!!!
Finally, the comfort. Those who feel the K1300S needs Helibars or any other form of bar raising will likely not like the H2 SX. It’s definitely more “sporty†although there is much less of a “stretch†to the bars. The seat to peg range feels slightly better than the K1300S (normal seat) and there is still plenty of space to move around. It really suits me out of town but may be a little less suitable in town. We’ll see when I do some more town riding.
The last thing to mention is the seat itself. The jury is definitely still out on this one. I did a number of 12+ hour, 600+ mile days on my K1300Ss and the seat never gave me any suggestion of being anything but comfortable. While not uncomfortable in any way on my 90 minute ride. It also didn’t feel entirely comfortable. It didn’t help that my leathers were sliding a bit on the seat, something that didn’t happen on the BMW seats. We’ll see over time but I may be digging my Airhawk out from the back of the cupboard where it’s been for a good while.
Did I mention that the engine was simply fantastic? :D
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Good to hear that you have made the right choice Dave.
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Never realised that service cost pain was less if incurred on infrequent journeys ::)
Fnerr fnerr Brian!
Dave, sounding great. Agility and less stretch to the bars standing out to my mind as nice!
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"In Summary – what an incredible, brilliant, phenomenal, superb, amazing engine!"
I take it that its a keeper then?
Profile update time :)
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Nice review David but I was surprised that you never mentioned the engine, you being a petrol head and all that; was it not that noticeable?
As far as the bars are concerned, I've never needed taller bars on the K, rather closer bars (I have a short back) and would have the Helibars right back if the construction allowed.
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So, I’m now over 400 miles into ownership and the bike is ready for its first into London commute on Monday followed by its 600 mile oil change and once over on Tuesday. The first thing I can report is that the engine is simply superb. (Did I mention that in my previous post? :D ) I had an opportunity yesterday to properly try out some of its abilities and it happily pulled 20mph in top gear for a tenth of a mile, then pulled away cleanly to 80mph (my self-imposed top speed at this stage of running in.) No fuss, no “judders†and no suggestion of being laboured. Just clean, smooth pull. With a red line of 12,000 rpm and a (limited) top speed of around 185mph, that gives a top gear usable speed rang of 165mph! As a note, and as with all my bikes, I’m running it on Tesco Momentum 99 RON. This may help with the smooth slow running.
The handling continues to impress as being light and “flickable†(despite it being a relatively heavy bike) yet stable and predictable. I have some BST Carbon wheels I’ll be fitting in late May (at tyre change time) and I’m keen to see what difference they make.
I never had an issue with the handling on my K1300Ss and was happy riding them to the limits of the tyres (conditions allowing) but I “feel†that the H2 SX will be quicker and easier in pretty much all situations. The Old Gits trip to the Dolomites in June may help prove/disprove that theory.
The tank range has proved itself to be a realistic 180 miles between fill ups. 200 should be possible and one day, I’ll strap a can onto the pillion seat and find out. Either way, it’s pretty comparable to my previous K1300Ss.
The brakes have improved with use and feel stronger when pushed hard. In normal riding, planned braking conditions, they are the equal (at least the front is) with those on the K1300S. However, while there has been a noticeable improvement, emergency/very hard braking is still not quite as good as the K1300S. That said, it’s still very acceptable.
The seat comfort has improved with use. Again, it’s not as good as the BMW seat, but it’s currently acceptable. A replacement/rebuild at some point in the future may still be on the cards but I’ll wait and see on that one. My Airhawk will be coming to Italy with me but, it’ll remain in the luggage unless really needed.
I’m getting to understand the huge number of setting options there are available and, just as importantly, how to change the “mid rideâ€. Some are very useful and used often, some will be very useful but used rarely and some are pointless for my use though may be useful to others. (The option of “medium†power mode being the perfect example. If the conditions are not so bad as to be using low power mode – still 100bhp - then full power mode would be used.)
The final thing is cruise control. This is the first bike I’ve had with cruise control. How the hell did I manage so many motorway miles without it? Like a quick shifter and heated grips, this is another item that was considered a toy until I had it, at which point it became essential.
Still early days but I continue to feel this is the bike (chain drive aside) that BMW should have produced as the replacement for the K1300S. It is, in my mind, the next evolution of the “do everything well†sports tourer. It lives by the ethos that originally gave us the R90S and the R100RS and on through the K1200S and K1300S.
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Another useful write-up. Thanks.
...some BST Carbon wheels...
Don't you hate it when you have to rough it with some dodgy third party accessory.
And all at company expense, too. Tch. 8) 8) 8)
Chris Canning - if he's reading - would be proud of your choice.
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He's not...
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He's not...
Oh, I am roughing it … in a style befitting a gentleman in my position. ;)
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Sorry, was referring to CC reading this forum :D
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Another useful write-up. Thanks.
Chris Canning - if he's reading - would be proud of your choice.
Not sure proud is the right word but the OP will be very pleased with the results.
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Chris Canning - if he's reading - would be proud of your choice.
Not sure proud is the right word but the OP will be very pleased with the results.
Welcome back, Chris.
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I made a really "cool" discovery this morning. When I turned my ignition on at 05:30 this morning I got a (huge) ice warning on the dash (OK - nothing special I here you say), but it also automatically turned on the heated grips!!! How cool 8) (warm!!!!) is that! :D
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Will it turn them on when you go over the Alpes?
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That would probably cause a 'hot-start' issue on the BM
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I made a really "cool" discovery this morning. When I turned my ignition on at 05:30 this morning I got a (huge) ice warning on the dash (OK - nothing special I here you say), but it also automatically turned on the heated grips!!! How cool 8) (warm!!!!) is that! :D
Wasn't this feature described in the User Manual, then ?
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I made a really "cool" discovery this morning. When I turned my ignition on at 05:30 this morning I got a (huge) ice warning on the dash (OK - nothing special I here you say), but it also automatically turned on the heated grips!!! How cool 8) (warm!!!!) is that! :D
Wasn't this feature described in the User Manual, then ?
Possibly but I haven't read the bits on switches like heated grips, indicators, high/low beam. I have a reasonable idea how to work those. :D
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So you can be pleasantly, OR unpleasantly, surprised.
Morale : RTFM ;)
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I rode my K1300S home late afternoon and had to hold my finger on the flash switch before I sussed out how to set high beam.
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So you can be pleasantly, OR unpleasantly, surprised.
Morale : RTFM ;)
Not sure I agree Rich. Far more exciting to discover than to read about.
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I rode my K1300S home late afternoon and had to hold my finger on the flash switch before I sussed out how to set high beam.
Quite right - it's not intuitive. I had to read the manual too.
The design should have been:
- pull gently to flash
- pull fully to toggle high / low
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I rode my K1300S home late afternoon and had to hold my finger on the flash switch before I sussed out how to set high beam.
Having bought my K13 (and still having and riding my K12) I had to stop on the way home after meeting you and Ron at the cafe in Oxford'ish to try to work out how to turn my heated grips on. To be fair, I wasn't sure how to turn them on on my K12 as I almost never use them!
I remember (name redacted for safery and security reasons) asking why his bike had two dipped beams (at the bottom of the headlight unit), when we all talked about two main beams...
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Good news from my 600 mile oil change yesterday. Kawasaki have changed the service schedule so it's no longer a 4000 service interval but is now a 7500 service interval :D That's better than the K1300S! I assume that they kept the service interval small when the model was new but now a fair few have had some miles put on them it's been decided a short service interval is not required.
… and did I ever mention just how just how stupendous, brilliant, terrific, fabulous, fantastic the engine is?
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7.5k sevice is good, I agree.
Is there a 12 month service that kicks in if you're not keeping the mileage up?
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7.5k sevice is good, I agree.
Is there a 12 month service that kicks in if you're not keeping the mileage up?
Yes, it's 7500 miles OR 12 months, whichever is sooner. (I'll do two services a year so wasn't worried about 12 months!:D )
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How is it for road presence David?
My R1150GS was so fwugly it scared even truckers out of the way, my blue and white K12S (with a flouro jacket and white helmet on top) was perceived by many to be plod and so the waves parted and my K13S in dark black is virtually invisible so no-one tries to kill me. I can't imagine riding a metallic kermit green space ship...
Also, what about the lights? You must have got time to evaluate them before the clocks went haywire!
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Road presence is good. The LED headlight seems to be visible, without being annoying, from a long way off and generally people react as you'd want them to. It's big enough to allow "command of the road" and to be perceived as a "big motorbike" by other road users. (Very like my K1300S MotorSport was.)
At a slight tangent, I used it in the dark for the first time on Monday morning. The cornering lights are definitely noticeable and help though were a little distracting at first. OK once I knew to ignore them. The headlight is OK, probably about the equal of the standard K1300S lights but not a patch on the HID conversion I had on all 3 of my Ks. The down side of the LED light is that the option to upgrade is now very limited. :(
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That's great news regarding the increased service interval. And pretty nice that they're not sticking to the original just because they could. It also negates one of the two obvious criticisms/concerns/fondu I had... you know, ignoring the price :P.
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Weird about the LED lights David. The ones on my new S3 are stunning. Way better than the standard HID's on the old A6.
On the A417 north of Gloucester toward Ledbury, the bends come thick and very fast and I can make much progress along almost all of it on dip beam, that's how good they are. Fantastic throw and the only thing that main gives you is a better view of the scenery and enormous dazzle from the road signs. A couple of long straights allow/demand full beam but that's about it.
Maybe the duck would benefit from auxilliary lights.
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So, I’m now 1400 miles in, fully run in, and enjoying the bike in the way it was intended. The prime use so far has been my commute from home to central London (75 miles each way) so the bike gets a daily run along country roads, A roads of all types, motorway and city.
Performance remains stunning. An occasional full throttle, full revs blast through the gears has me grinning from ear to ear. The K1300S is fast but this really is in a different league. The shorter wheelbase allows for a bit more front wheel lift and the traction control is excellent at managing that in a controlled and predictable fashion. Unlike the BMW system that simply cuts all power and dumps you back onto the tarmac with a thump.
Fuel consumption is almost exactly the same as the K1300S so that gives between 47 and 51mpg depending on how much fun I’ve been having. By default, I fill the bike with Tesco Momentum 99RON fuel. On one occasion, Tesco’s had run out of fuel and I had to fill with Esso 97RON. The difference in smoothness, especially in town, was noticeable. It wasn’t bad but it was noticeable that I needed more revs in the low range and the in-town off-on throttle changes were not as smooth.
In town, it’s excellent. While not actually any lighter, it feels lighter and has a much better turning circle than the K1300S. Balance is excellent and the slow speed pick-up to go for gaps etc. is brilliant. Also, the heated grips are in BMW league.
The front brake has now bedded in and is almost as good as the K1300S. The rear definitely feels like an optional extra not fitted. It’s rubbish, even struggling to hold the bike on slight inclines while waiting at red lights.
The other disappointment has been the seat. It is not in the same league as the BMW seat. After 90mins/75 miles, my bum has just about had enough. I really wouldn’t want to use it for a long, big mile day without my AirHawk. As it happens, a seat became available on eBay at a reasonable price so I bought that and currently have it with a local upholsterer who does bike seats, getting a gel pad fitted. I hope that will solve the problem although the AirHawk is there just in case.
So, all in all, I’m still extremely happy with the bike. It still is, in my opinion, one of only a small number of models that deliver a sports bike capable of two up, hard luggage, touring. Exactly where I felt the K1300s (and the K1200S, original K100RS, R100RS an R90S) were aimed. It’s not perfect, although nothing is, but it delivers fun, performance and capability in huge dollops and in a great package.
It’s still very early days yet but my feelings are that both component and build quality are at least as good as BMW, if not better
If you are looking for a replacement for your K1300S (or K1200S) and want a sports bike with touring capabilities rather than a touring bike with sports capabilities (FJR etc.) I’d definitely recommend getting a decent ride on one. While expensive, I don’t think the price is far off what a new K1300S would cost were such a beast available.
:D I'm loving mine!
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Sounds lovely David! Stop it please, make it sound worse!
Do you have a scotoiler set up? Sorry I forgot to check thread..
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Yes Matt, I have the ScottOiler e system fitted. Way to early to know how good or bad it is or if chain use is the pain in the backside most shaft drive owners (me included) worry it will be.
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If there was ever a bike built to stretch a chain, this is the one.
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I have a paltry 600 miles on my wee Honda and about 100 ago the chain was as rusty as hell (not plated) and so stiff it was difficult to get the bottom run to flex so I could check the slack. It has been lubed, liberally, with Putoline 'O'-& 'X'-ring lube before and after every off-road ride and still it is a pain.
Mine isn't the only one in this condition so I decided to flash the cash and fit a Regina Gold 'X'-ring chain. When I split the old chain off I discovered, much to my surprise, that it was in fact a fairly decent DID 'O' ring jobby.
Welcome to the world of chains...
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O-ring chains don’t like chain lube, particularly on dirt bikes. My CRF250X has done about 2000 miles, mostly off road and very muddy and the original chain is still fine. Never used chain lube, just wipe it with and oily rag (engine oil) to stop the surface rust after jet washing the mud off it. Maybe the solvent in chain lube attacks the o rings, maybe grease mixes with mud to form a grinding paste. Whatever the reason o ring chains last longer without chain lube.
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Now 3000 miles in and a visit to Hilltop complete. With one exception, the bike remains stunning. Firstly the bad news:
The seat is really not long distance comfortable. Even after having a gell pad fitted, which improved things slightly, there’s no way I’d manage the sorts of long days the k1300S did with ease. My Airhawk seat cushion WILL be used for the Old Gits trip at the start of June. I don’t think I’ll survive without it!
Now the good news:
Hilltop mapped the bike and it currently does 190bhp at the wheel at just under 10,000rpm. (99lbft at the wheel) This on an engine that red lines at 12,000rpm. Steve at Hilltop said the cat is strangling it and that it just can’t get the exhaust gases out fast enough. Remove the cat and it will rev freely to the red line and will deliver 220bhp plus with ease. All of this while still delivering late 40’s mpg general use fuel economy – which is about the same as my K1300S.
I did gain 10lbft at 3000 rpm which is noticeable and useful, although the engine was already stunning at low rpm. Likewise, off throttle to on throttle has been improved and everything just feels “smootherâ€.
Handling remains excellent with quick and light turn in and fast direction changes, but with a stable and solid feel. It does make the K1300S feel a little ponderous. It’s definitely noticeably “more sporty†than the K1300S but without any noticeable loss of stability. My current “high scores†on the dash lean angle are 42 degrees on either side, and that’s without taking the bike on any really nice roads. (Roll on June and the Old Gits trip to the Dolomites!!!)
While I would definitely prefer shaft drive, the chain, with the electronic Sccottoiler fitted, has still not needed adjustment and is proving, so far, to be less of a problem than I feared.
I’ve now fitted a cheap TPMS which is doing the job really well.
The “proper†electronic cruise control is getting a huge amount of use. It’s great! Set at the chosen speed, and just relax. Use the clutch lever to disengage the cruise control if catching up a vehicle in front (or passing a “photo-me-now†box on the side of the road) then press Resume to have the bike accelerate by its self, back up to the pre-set speed.
The front brakes are excellent now they’re bedded in. I managed to force an ABS activation from them and was pleasantly surprised. No drama but you were aware that the ABS had fired. The rear brake is still well below what it should be and feels like even stamping on the peddle with a “heavy heal†would not lock the rear up.
With the exception of the seat, comfort is excellent. The riding position works for low and high speed, for town and open roads. It feels slightly sportier than the K1300S but I’ve had no neck, wrist or back discomfort when riding through the city. Likewise, Autobahn speeds are all day comfortable with minimal buffeting. (Seat aside!) I had the pleasure of riding through some torrential rain recently and I’m pleased to say the fairing is possibly slightly better at keeping the rain off the rider than the K1300S fairing. I still get wet, but it takes a little longer!
So, all in, still a great bike that does pretty much everything a K1300S does but better. I really can’t emphasize just how good the engine is. For me, one of the great parts of the K1300S was the hugely strong and flexible way power was delivered. Well, the H2 SX is the same but more, lots more! If BMW wanted to understand what the K1300S replacement needed to be then looking at the H2 SX would give them the answer. It’s just a shame about the seat.
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I don't know whether the rear brake on the H2 is noticeably different to the second generation GTR 1400 that I owned for three years, however the rear brake on that felt very "wooden" and in truth, contributed little to stopping performance. The brakes are linked, in that the rear operates together with one front disc, although actuation of both front and rear brakes simultaneously removes the link.
Prior to the GTR, I owned a BMW K1200 RS (brick) with the servo brakes (which didn't give me any trouble at all in some 25,000 miles) and, shortly after buying the GTR I was approaching a railway crossing locally at around 55mph when the lights started to flash ready for the barriers to descend. Instinctively I decided to stop (something which the BMW would have managed easily) and it soon became apparent that this was not going to happen with the GTR, so I was forced to carry on through.
I later owned a new Versys 1000 Mk 11 and found the brakes much better than the GTR, although both bikes had front discs replaced under warranty due warping. I really don't use brakes heavily at all, in fact I have never yet managed to wear brake pads out on a bike that I have bought new, often over 20,000 miles or more.
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Strange about the seat David. Do you think it is the shape or is it the type of foam?
Apart from that it is all sounding good. So, what's the plan for getting rid of the cat?
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I think part of the seat issue is the part of the bum it makes you sit on. I have my weight on the rear of the buttocks rather than slightly between my legs/upper thighs where it was on the K1300S. As I've had a "medical grade" gel pad fitted it can't be the foam. Beyond that, I'm not sure. I just know it's not long journey comfortable.
As regards the cat, there are three "accepted" options. First is complete removal, replacing the "collector box" with the cat in by a link pip. The only down side of this approach is that headers are welded to the collector box so need cutting off.
The second is to simply drill out the contents of the collector box, or at lest a large hole through them. Apparently quite straight forward and not noticeable from the outside. Only "worry" is that you have to be careful of the lamba sensor.
The third option is by far the best but also the most expensive. I can replace the headers and collector box with the headers and link pipe off a ZX10R which offer the best gas flow of the lot.
None are hugely difficult and none are silly expensive but the question of "when is enough enough?" comes up. Do I want (because I definitely don't need) 220+bhp? Improvements will almost all be at the top end so generally not used that often on the road ... but … it is there for the taking!!!
Decisions decisions!!!
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Fourth option:
- leave it alone. It reduces noxious emissions.
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Yeah, but they're behind you... ::)
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The second is to simply drill out the contents of the collector box, or at lest a large hole through them. Apparently quite straight forward and not noticeable from the outside. Only "worry" is that you have to be careful of the lamba sensor.
The lambda sensor can be removed before taking out the cat and refitted afterwards.
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I have a large auger bit I could wield for you...
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Enjoy your new cruiser. :D
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Thanks for the feedback. I will confess that I have only skim read the approach to "modifying" the existing cat so not sure exactly what the steps are although there are no suggestions that it's in any way difficult. I think the lamda sensor caution is as much about the mount point as the sensor itself. It would appear that it sticks quite a long way into the body of the collector box.
I'm still not sure I'll go ahead with the mod yet. I may wait until the warranty runs out - just in case, but if/when I do go ahead, I may well give you a ring Brian. Thanks for the offer.
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So, the Old Gits trip to The Dolomites last week has given me an opportunity to really test out the H2 SX and, as I spent most of my time in the company of at least 2 K1300Ss, to directly compare.
Performance: A 170mph (clock – 161mph sat. nav.) run along the autobahn, fully loaded with panniers, tank bag and tail pack showed the H2 SX is stable, predictable and fast. There was more in reserve and a combination of traffic and a desire to not leave the BMWs too far behind were the only things that stopped me utilising that last bit.
A K1300S side-by-side roll on test from 80 to 150mph, firstly in 6th, then from 4th through the gears got the response over the intercom from the K1300S rider of “Jesus! You just f**ked off!†:D
On the mountain passes it was also noticeable that while, as the lead bike, I was just “making progress†on the Kawasaki, the K1300Ss were having to work quite hard to keep me in sight. This was confirmed when we swapped bikes and the first comment from both K1300S riders across the intercom was “bloody hell, it’s quick!â€. :D
Handling: Again, the lightness and speed of turn in were noticeably in the Kawasaki’s favour. I never had a problem with the handling of my K1300Ss ;) but both of the other riders agreed that the Kawasaki is noticeably “more sportyâ€, without any loss of stability. Before riding it, both said they were concerned with the return to tele-forks after the excellent K1300S front end but both said they never even noticed the forks being different on the Kawasaki after their ride. A scrapped foot peg and a “high score†on the Kawasaki “lean-o-meter†of 54 degrees shows I was having lots of fun.
Luggage: The 40l panniers on the Kawasaki were excellent and, I think, are better than the BMW sports cases. The fact that most of that 40l is tucked under the seat means the Kawasaki is no wider than the K1300S with the sports cases compressed and significantly narrower than when the sports cases are fully expanded.
Comfort: A definite win for the BMW here. Despite use of my AirHawk cushion (which developed a puncture 350 miles from home!!! :( ) the Kawasaki was not in the same league as the BMW. I managed the long 590 mile/10 hour ride on Saturday and was OK to continue riding on Sunday but it was more of an endurance than a pleasure. That said, it is only the seat that is the problem. The overall riding position, the wind protection, the general ergonomics etc. are all as good on the Kawasaki as they are on the BMW. I’m now just waiting for one of the well-known names to produce a decent alternative seat.
Extras/gizmos: While it would have been nice to have ESA on the Kawasaki (available on the SX SE+) it wasn’t hugely missed. The standard suspension did the job on all the surfaces we encountered. However, the electronic cruise control and the down-shift quick shifter were coveted enviously by both K1300S riders. The down-sift in particular made riding down the mountain passes much easier/safer/quicker on the Kawasaki. No loss of engine traction while coming down through the gears on hairpin approaches has to be experienced to appreciate just how good it is.
Fuel: Another win for the BMW, but only just! For about 70 percent of fill ups, the BMWs used just under a litre less than the Kawasaki. There were 2 occasions when the Kawasaki used about a litre less fuel than the BMWs but it wasn’t clear what specific circumstances favoured one or other of the bikes. All that said, just under a litre on what were, generally 16 to 18l fill ups is only about 5% so not a huge difference. I may even find that after a few more miles to loosen-up (it still has less than 7000 on the clock) the Kawasaki may just make some of that back. On the motorway, it was me that almost always wanted fuel first but none of the BMWs had enough in their tank to make it to the next fuel stop without a little bit of “divine interventionâ€.
Interestingly, both of the other K1300S riders (one on a 2012 and the other on a 2015) who rode the H2 SX thought the Kawasaki felt exactly like how they’d imagine a K1300S with 10+ years of development. Neither are looking for a new bike this year and, like me, if they were looking for a replacement, would likely be going for another K1300S, were such a beast available. That said, both felt that, when it did come time to change, they were pretty sure where they’d be looking! :D
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Great! You're really not helping with my denial David!
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David. Great write-up as always.
A couple of interesting points I had thought would be issues, the front end and the fuel consumption, turn out not to be relevant in the real world.
I figured the auto-blipper would be a hit but hadn't thought about the engine braking into downhill hairpins; great news.
I would love cruise on the BM, as much for those mind-numbing speed restrictions as for the motorway journeys. Is it a nudge-up/-down system like a car?
It's good that the ergonomics suited you compared with the K but disappointing that your bum didn't agree.
A puncture on an Air-Hawk? Hmmm! Must be one of the later ones as I thought the old ones like mine were bomb-proof. Either way I'm surprised you hadn't stowed the puncture repair kit inside the cover. Mine never leaves home without the little patches...
Matt. Get over yourself and just get one 8)
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Have you had to adjust the chain much, David?
(I've got very used to no chain.)
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David. Great write-up as always.
A couple of interesting points I had thought would be issues, the front end and the fuel consumption, turn out not to be relevant in the real world.
I figured the auto-blipper would be a hit but hadn't thought about the engine braking into downhill hairpins; great news.
I would love cruise on the BM, as much for those mind-numbing speed restrictions as for the motorway journeys. Is it a nudge-up/-down system like a car?
It's good that the ergonomics suited you compared with the K but disappointing that your bum didn't agree.
A puncture on an Air-Hawk? Hmmm! Must be one of the later ones as I thought the old ones like mine were bomb-proof. Either way I'm surprised you hadn't stowed the puncture repair kit inside the cover. Mine never leaves home without the little patches...
Matt. Get over yourself and just get one 8)
Cruise control includes ability to add/take off 1mph at a time while engaged or press and hold up/down button for bigger changes.
My "whoopee cushion" is the one used by Noah. Bought in about 2000 - 2001. It's never been a problem so I din't carry a repair kit. I might now! ;)
Have you had to adjust the chain much, David?
(I've got very used to no chain.)
Not yet. It was adjusted by the dealers when the carbon wheels were fitted, and that's it so far. It's in for a service and a change of sprockets (from 18/44 to 19/42) on Thursday so it'll get adjusted then as well! 8)
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How fast do you want to go down the A131 or whichever road it is you commute on??
And, what was the decision on the carbon wheels, apart from to buy them, obviously?
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How fast do you want to go down the A131 or whichever road it is you commute on??
And, what was the decision on the carbon wheels, apart from to buy them, obviously?
I do the A134 Long Melford by-pass at a tad over … er … 60! ;)
Carbon wheels are a winner. It made the bike feel really light and response (although it was light and responsive before!!! It's just better now!)
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Excellent road report David. A good comparison between the old duffer stuff and what's on offer today.
Impressed about the lack of chain adjustment as well, again excellent. Just need a decent seat to complete the package. ;)
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You are an excellent biographer David enjoyed your reports . On the rear brake what is it’s composition had Zx9r the faster green model circa 1999 previously while the seat was a bit of a plank would have thought these would have moved to something more comfortable. Dare I say would you think of scavenging a K 1300 seat to rebuild it? The rear brake on the Z would offer very little feed back and could catch you out the recommended rear pad was an organic pad not sintered would it be worth using something similar. Well wear with your new machine.
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Time for a quick update I think. Following on from the success of the Old Gits trip to the Dolomites where, with the exception of seat comfort, the H2 SX showed it could do everything a K1300S could only better, faster, quicker and easier, and while using only slightly more fuel, It was back to the daily commuting grind from Suffolk down to the South Bank and back.
The 7500 mile service has now been done. I had already changed the air filter to a reusable one so I didn’t have to pay for that but I did have the sprockets changed (from 18/44 to 19/42). This ought to be an easy job on a chain drive bike but is recognised as a 2 plus hour job on the owners forums due to the requirement to drain the cooling system and undo the water pump in order to get to the front sprocket. I was also having an issue with the cornering lights in that I couldn’t get them to switch on. (It turns out that neither I nor the dealer had “clicked†to the requirement to have the engine running when changing the cornering lights setting. It needed Kawasaki to point this out!!!! This is different to every other of the 100’s of settings which can be done with the engine off!)
Even with this extra work being done, the total bill was £290. (I had supplied the new sprockets and we used the original chain.) Measured against the cost of BMW servicing, that seems to me to be pretty damn reasonable.
With the sprockets changed, the bike is definitely more relaxed. 5000rpm in 6th is now 85mph and it is ultimately geared for 205 in top at the red line, not that I’ll ever even try to get there. ;) It has taken the edge off the top gear roll on but it still manages 60 to 100mph in 5 seconds, thus quicker than the K1300S. Through the gear acceleration has not been effected although it may not be quite as keen to pick the front wheel up as it was. What has changed is that my daily commute now needs around 0.5 to 0.75 litres less fuel (or just under £1 less to refuel). This means that it’s now pretty much an exact match for both range and consumption to my K1300Ss while still offering noticeable more power if/when I want it.
While still early days, all of the components are still looking good and doing what they should. The bike does seem to attract the dirt more than the K1300Ss did so doesn’t look it’s best unless it’s been washed.
So, half way through my first summer of commuting on the H2 SX SE, and over 8000 miles in and my opinion has not changed. The K1300S was definitely the best “do everything†sport tourer on the market. Then BMW chose to discontinue it and Kawasaki launched the H2 SX. The K1300S is still a superb package and offers excellent value for money, even allowing for some of its known foibles. However, the H2 SX SE is definitely a better bike in just about every way you could measure (with the exception of seat comfort). It offers more of the “sport†part of sport touring without any compromise on the “touring†part. It is immensely capable, incredibly enjoyable, stunningly fast but supremely controlled. Is it worth trading in a good K1300S for just to get the “extrasâ€, probably not but, if you’re looking at a replacement for your K1300S, and want a bike that does everything a K1300S does, but better, then give a H2 SX some serious consideration.
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You are an excellent biographer David enjoyed your reports . On the rear brake what is it’s composition had Zx9r the faster green model circa 1999 previously while the seat was a bit of a plank would have thought these would have moved to something more comfortable. Dare I say would you think of scavenging a K 1300 seat to rebuild it? The rear brake on the Z would offer very little feed back and could catch you out the recommended rear pad was an organic pad not sintered would it be worth using something similar. Well wear with your new machine.
The H2 seat is a 2 part affair, with the rider and pillion being separate units so I don't think utilising a K1300S seat has any mileage. I think I just need to wait until the likes of Corbin or Sargent produce a replacement.
Thanks for the advice on rear pads. I'll try a change of pad when the current ones are end of life.
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I think I just need to wait until the likes of Corbin or Sargent produce a replacement.
https://www.sargentcycle.co.uk/acatalog/sargent-products-under-development.html
'Kawasaki Z1000 H2/SE/SX'
Book your place on the waiting list!
If nothing else, contacting them early let's them know they have a market.
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Good idea Rich, e-mail sent.
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Woohoo! Sargent have a seat in production. Should be available in the UK in August!
https://www.sargentcycle.co.uk/acatalog/sargent-kawasaki-z1000-motorcycle-seat-2018.html
(https://www.sargentcycle.co.uk/acatalog/z1000-h2_dev_big.jpg)
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That seat shape looks awfully like the one for the K and knowing how your botty/leg combination simply lerrrved my Sargent seat (i.e. not at all) then I would be looking to try the first one sold rather than being the guinea-pig David 8)
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It is a concern Brian but the bit of my bum that I sit on while I'm on the H2 SX is very different to the bit of bum that I sat on while on a K1300S. As such, I expect (hope!) that the H2 SX Sargent seat will be different to the K1300S seat.
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If you don't like it, you'll have no problem selling it, just like any Sargent seat.
Although you may lose 30% or so, it seems a fair gamble when you consider the miles you're doing.
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Having just clicked over the 10,000 mile mark, and the thread hijack of the “new member†thread, I thought it was time for another update.
Probably the easiest thing to say is that nothing has changed! The H2 SX is still devastatingly fast, enormous fun, hugely practical and a complete pain in the arse! :( That last comment relates entirely to the seat, and only the seat. The riding position still fits me perfectly but the seat becomes a challenge after about 60 minutes. I’m still waiting for the Sargent seat to become available (any day now) and I’m hoping it does the job.
Despite a real (dyno’d) 190bhp at the rear wheel, and occasional use of all 190 horses :D , the Pilot Road 5s are surviving remarkably well. They’ve now done over 6000 miles and have another 1000+ miles in them before I’ll replace them. Likewise, the chain is surviving really well. It was adjusted by the dealer at the 7500 mile service when they fitted the 18/42 sprockets. Other than that, it’s had no adjustment but will be in need of some adjustment in the next 1000 miles.
The change of gearing has had the effect I wanted. The bike now feels a little calmer at normal road speeds (closer to the K1300S) although going above 6k rpm still puts the rest of the world into reverse. 5000rpm is 85mph on the speedo (82 on the sat. nag.) so motorway riding is definitely more relaxed.
While only 6 months old, and those being spring and summer months, the components, paint and cycle parts show no signs of wear or aging. The bike still feels new and looks the part on those few occasions I actually get the bucket and sponge out and wash it!
On the international forums, I’ve now heard of the first H2 SX failure. The bike had done 22,000km but had been breathed on from new to the point that it had been dyno’d at 245bhp at the wheel. It had then been used very regularly on the track and on the strip to put “lesser vehicles in their placeâ€. The failure was a cracked piston! I can’t say I’m surprised and I don’t see that as any indication of a weakness in the design.
All of this means I still 100% feel that the H2 SX is the spiritual successor to the K1300S. The bike BMW should have built, but didn’t. It takes the whole ethos of the K1300S and does it better. I’m still a very happy chappie!
(http://www.old-gits.org/images/DavidMc_Pics/20190811_164255.jpg)
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Thanks for the update, David - an excellent write-up as ever.
Looking forward to the Sargent review. As is your posterior. ;D
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Have you noticed how much the fairing/headlight projects forward of the front wheel axle on the H2 in relation to other bikes?
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Have you noticed how much the fairing/headlight projects forward of the front wheel axle on the H2 in relation to other bikes?
Indeed. Personally, I don't like it that much but it is what it is!
I wonder if it's Kawasaki's "dig" at Honda with their current "pug nose" corporate look for a number of their bikes?
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I wonder, is it noticeable when you ride the bike?
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Not noticeable as the nose can't be seen from riding position. Handlebars, dashboard, screen etc. are all in "normal" place so the rider is unaware. Even in the dark, the light doesn't seem further forward.
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Good write-up David.
I think I could do without the US-spec amber reflectors on the forks. I mean, wtf?
Also, I think I would have to put a bit of black tape over the 'Super Charged' logo, a bit too dweeby for me... :D
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Minor update: Nothing new to report other than at 11500 miles I had a new set of PR5s fitted. That means the previous set did almost exactly 7500 miles. The rear was still legal but only just. The front had around another 1000 miles left in it but I got them replaced as a pair (£300 the pair, ride in - ride out at FWR in south London).
Due to the wheel change at 4,000 miles, the service at 7,500 miles and the tyre change at 11,500, I've still not had to adjust the chain so even that is proving to be a lot less of an issue than I feared.
I'm still waiting for Sargent to release their new seat and my backside is still complaining about the original seat but I can get to and from work without too much discomfort and I have my AirHawk for any longer journeys.
Fuel wise, I've been adding a little more than recommended in the manual at fill ups. If you overfill the tank the current Euro regs require the excess to flow directly into the inlet track rather than spilling. So, I've been very conscious of not overfilling but increasing the amount in the tank now gives a range of over 200 miles. I've not actually tested that but I fill up at 150 miles with the gauge showing what I know is at least another 70 miles.
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Is that ALL into the inlet tract as you keep on pumping it into the top?
Or does it gradually allow it in as you ride?
And if it is the latter, how the hell does the ECU account for the fact that the injectors are mixing neat fuel with an air/fuel mix from the inlet?
We need to know these things... 8)
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Interesting to hear what you think of the Road 5 tyres David. I'm torn between a set of these or Angel 2's in the near future
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I understand that it dumps the entire overfill directly into the inlet tract so the bike doesn't run properly/at all. It's to replace the old drain pipe that used to dump the excess on the ground under the bike. I assume the latest BMWs (and other makes) do the same.
I've not tried the Angel II tyres so can't compare but I'm very happy with the PR5s. I had them on my K1300S and would happily recommend them for both the BMW and the Kwacker.
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I understand that it dumps the entire overfill directory into the inlet tract so the bike doesn't run properly/at all. It's to replace the old drain pipe that used to dump the excess on the ground under the bike. I assume the latest BMWs (and other makes) do the same.
I've not tried the Angel II tyres so can't compare but I'm very happy with the PR5s. I had them on my K1300S and would happily recommend them for both the BMW and the Kwacker.
I can see an after-market mod coming soon to re-direct it where it should go, which is on the ground to wash away the diesel.
It would be interesting to see if that does apply to oil burners cos that stuff will hydraulic the motor in one gulp. Even neat petrol isn't' compressible, much!
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OK, final report of the year. After 15,000 miles of commuting and a visit to the Dolomites, the H2 SX SE is heading to “bed†for the winter.
I’m still awaiting the availability of the Sargent seat and the current seat remains a pain in the ar*e! :( That said, commuting 150 miles a day is still within the limits of “pain threshold†and doesn’t require my AirHawk.
Fuel consumption improved very slightly when I increased the gearing and is pretty consistently returning VERY similar values to my previous K1300Ss. There really is nothing in it. The tank range now consistently reads well over 200 miles and, while I’ve still not actually tested it, I’ve no reason to doubt it.
The bike has used no oil between services and is showing no signs of wear/corrosion but we’ll see what 5 months in the shed does. So far, component quality appears as good as, or better than, BMWs.
It’s now due its 15k service but I’ll leave that until the spring. I’ve still not needed to adjust the chain (this has happened at services and tyre changes) so the ScottOiler appears to be proving its worth. I do clean the chain (with WD40) then re lube with a traditional chain spray on a regular(ish) basis in addition to the work the ScottOiler is doing.
Now we’re back to dark mornings and evenings, I do miss the HID lights on the Ks. The LED is better than the standard lights on the BMW but doesn’t match the HIDs for range, spread or brightness. The cornering lights are good at slow speed but the extra light they give does not project far enough forward to be of any real use at anything over about 25mph.
So, that’s all the factual, measurable bits dealt with. Now the emotion. I love this bike! No, I REALY love this bike!
The engine has always been absolutely stunning, with more grunt than the “Flying Scotsman†but in a controllable and easy to use package. The steering is light, quick and precise. It can be ridden with some significant enthusiasm while feeling completely safe and predictable. Keeping the revs below 5000rpm (85mph in top) gives quick and relaxed progress but giving it just a little more has the world going backwards. Take it over 9000rpm and you have to wave to Captain Kirk as you overtake the Starship Enterprise. (190bhp at the wheel is available over a 3000rpm range). :D
Even with my significantly increased gearing it’ll still pull top gear from below 30mph (Tesco 99RON fuel) without complaint, and will gain speed at a reasonable rate, but the ease and willingness of the engine to add revs means using the gears is way more fun. I’m also a total quick shifter up and down devotee. Running the engine between 4000 and 7000rpm, just using your left foot to flick between 3 or 4 gears really brings out the hooligan (in a good way) and puts a grin on my face a mile wide.
Knowing what I know now, and if I were in the position of having to buy a replacement for a K1300S, there really is no competition. For me, the H2 SX SE really is the best “do everything on tarmac†bike on the market, beating the previous champion (the K1300S) by some significant distance. I’m one happy punter! :D
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Nice to read. How did it handle in the Dolomites (i.e., compared to the K1300S); is it well behaving in the (curves of the) mountains ? The K used to be a little hard turning on curvy terrain, how does the Kawasaki compare to it ?
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Excellent write-up as ever. Thanks David.
Those HIDs weren't standard K fitment, so methinks you may have yet another tick for the H2 there.
The chain sounds much less hassle than I remember, which is also good. (Do you have a centre stand for oiling/adjustment?)
Odd about the seat. I hope you've told Kawasaki about their one and only oversight!
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Great write-up as always David and I'm really glad that your initial enthusiasm has not only stood the test of miles but has increased with familiarity.
So, even if we all move from the K to the H2, we can still keep the name :D
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Nice to read. How did it handle in the Dolomites (i.e., compared to the K1300S); is it well behaving in the (curves of the) mountains ? The K used to be a little hard turning on curvy terrain, how does the Kawasaki compare to it ?
Dolomites write up on page 5 of this thread.
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Excellent write-up as ever. Thanks David.
Those HIDs weren't standard K fitment, so methinks you may have yet another tick for the H2 there.
The chain sounds much less hassle than I remember, which is also good. (Do you have a centre stand for oiling/adjustment?)
Odd about the seat. I hope you've told Kawasaki about their one and only oversight!
HID not standard but a common and easy upgrade. An upgrade option not available on the Kawasaki.
And yes, center stand included
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...
Dolomites write up on page 5 of this thread.
Is the max. angle of bank readable from some menu on your display, or did you obtain it from some (maybe mobile phone) software ?
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...
Dolomites write up on page 5 of this thread.
Is the max. angle of bank readable from some menu on your display, or did you obtain it from some (maybe mobile phone) software ?
It's one of the very many options on the dash.
ETA Willy waving pictures ;)
(http://www.old-gits.org/pics2019/20190609_130215.jpg)
(http://www.old-gits.org/pics2019/2019OldGits%20161mph)
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A friend of mine has an H2 SX and is thinking of selling it purely because of the seat. A trip to north Wales left him in agony, he had to borrow an airhawk, which he didn't really like.
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A friend of mine has an H2 SX and is thinking of selling it purely because of the seat. A trip to north Wales left him in agony, he had to borrow an airhawk, which he didn't really like.
It's such a shame Kawasaki have made such a huge, but easy to resolve, mistake. If the offered a "comfort" seat that actually was … it would sell like hot cakes!
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Thems big figures! (lean, average and max speeds).
Is it the thought of getting off the seat that forces you to make such good progress? :P :P :P
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Thems big figures! (lean, average and max speeds).
They sure are!. How have you still got a license?
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Thems big figures! (lean, average and max speeds).
Is it the thought of getting off the seat that forces you to make such good progress? :P :P :P
:D
Thems big figures! (lean, average and max speeds).
They sure are!. How have you still got a license?
The speed was done in Germany on the autobahn, so was totally legal.
The lean angles were on the mountain passes in the Dolomites so were done in 1st gear below or only just above, the speed limit.
When and where are, as always, amongst the most important considerations for such events.
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When and where are, as always, amongst the most important considerations for such events.
When and where are, as always, amongst the most important considerations for such events, Mr policeman officer. 8)
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OK, time for a quick update. Over the winter I have fitted the new Sargent seat and had a remap. Now, the Kawasaki built in throttle restrictions have been removed so that 100% of twist grip = 100% throttle butterfly opening at engine speed above 9000 rpm (up to the 12,500 rpm red line) This has resulted in almost 220bhp at the rear wheel but with no loss of traction or usability. In fact, the new map has made things even smoother and more tractable throughout the entire rev range. While I've had very little chance to do serious testing, the fuel consumption doesn't appear to be impacted unless I'm using all of those 220 horses.
The Sargent seat is, so far, proving to be up to the job. the longest journey I've done on it is just under an hour, but there was no discomfort or suggestion of impending discomfort where, the OEM seat would have been making it's presence felt. The shape of the seat is very different to the one on Brian's K1200S that I hated, so that worry has been removed. It is the heated version so the trip to the dealers this morning for the 15,000 service was with a warm botty! :D
It's the big 15,000 mile service today and I've been told to expect a bill of around £850. :( That said, by the time I hit 18,000 the total servicing cost is not expected to be significantly different to either of my K1300S's (allowing a little bit for inflation) as they would have had 3 service by then where the Kawasaki will only have had two. I'll be tracking the service costs over the 3 years I expect to own the bike and we'll see if, by 50,000 miles, there is a huge difference in costs compared to the BMWs.
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Glad to hear that the seat is a different shape, I did think you were taking leave of your senses as it took a couple of days to get the feeling back in your thighs after a few hours on mine.
For £850 I would be expecting a total strip down and a clean and polish of every moving part of the motor and gearbox ::)
So, compared to 175 bhp, what does 220 actually feel like. I mean, I know what 220bhp feels like because I go past it on the way to 310 in the car but you know what I mean. It is, after all, the power to weight ratio and controllability that matters and you have said the tractability is even better.
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Given that the original 190bhp was only "that low" because Kawasaki mapped the fly-by-wire throttle butterflies to start closing at engine speeds above 9000rpm, despite the twist grip being fully open, the bike feels the same up to 9000 but then doesn't tail off the way it did before (although that was relative!!). The best word I can use is probably relentless. With the throttle pinned it just surges for the horizon, and keeps pushing, constantly feeling like it's trying to lift the front end, but with the traction control/anti-wheelie stopping it. In the first 4 gears it is just blisteringly quick and despite travelling at significant autobahn speeds is still trying to pick the front wheel up. I've not tried 5th and 6th above 9000rpm as there's just not been the road opportunity to do so.
The K1300S was no slouch, either through the gears or in roll-on but this is just a completely different league. I had a test ride on an S1000RR in dynaic-pro (or whatever the mode is you need the dongle for) a couple of years ago. It was nuts, despite me being used yo the K1300S. The Kawasaki now feels like the S1000RR but with the comfort/luggage/tractability/"grunt" of the K1300S. It really has put the sports back into sports tourer. :D
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While, as a result of COVID-19 I’ve not done many miles this year, and I (and the other Old Gits) didn’t get to Spain, I’ve still managed a few miles and some significant "milestones".
Firstly, the 15,000 miles service. I knew it was going to be big but that came in at £1088! Ouch! That said, it was the valve check and supercharger end float service. Surprisingly, the valves needed 9 new shims. I must admit I don’t think I’ve ever needed more than 3 shims over the whole time of ownership of any single BMW.
However, the costs needs to be put into context to compare with a K1300S. The H2 SX is serviced every 7500 miles with the “big†service on the 15,000 mile intervals. The K1300S was every 6000 miles with the big service every 18,000 miles. As the H2 SX will have no more service costs to get to 18,000 miles I feel it’s fair to compare to the costs of my two K1300Ss to 18,000 miles.
2013 K1300S Sport - £1135
2016 K1300S MotorSport - £1026
2019 H2 SX SE - £1362
Give a little for inflation and that’s not too bad, especially compared to the 2013 bike.
Now, consider that the H2 SX costs include the fitting of the sprockets when I changed the gearing – not part of a normal service but just under 2 hours additional work – and I got the rear hub needle roller bearings greased this time (suggestions from the USA that these might be a slight weak point if not regularly greased) – not part of a normal service but, again, just under 2 hours additional work – and the servicing costs are very comparable to the K1300S.
Time and more miles will tell if the costs remain comparable but I’ve no reason to think they won’t After all, in just under a years’ time I’ll be factoring in the costs of the BMW extended warranty or the cost of new radiators. ;)
One slightly amusing anecdote, and just to ensure that the BMW owners on here wouldn’t feel too left out if they moved to an H2 SX, I had to have the right hand switch gear replaced under warranty as one of the buttons became "sticky". :D
I’ve now used the Sargent seat in earnest. It looks great, the seat heater is brilliant and, comfort wise, it is a real improvement over the OEM seat. That said, it’s still far from perfect and will definitely still require the AirHawk “whoopee cushion†for long motorway days across France. The seat really is something that, for me, the K1300S has no equal.
The ECU flash to remove the Kawasaki "neutering" is very noticeable. The Kawasaki ECU program has the engine red lining at 12,500 rpm but, while the twist grip remains fully “open†the throttle butterflies start to shut off from anything above 9,000 rpm. Thus, at 12,000 rpm with the twist grip on the stop the throttle butterflies are only about 20% open.
The new flash gives 100% butterfly opening to the red line. The bike always was warp speed fast but it’s like Kirk has just been given Pickards version of the Enterprise. :D Using the bike in "low power" mode (still over 200bhp) gives about the same fuel consumption as the old ECU flash. Put it into "high power" mode and the consumption drops from around 48-50 mpg to 42-44 mpg but the performance is simply ballistic. The throttle is instant on uptake and gives earth moving drive from any speed in any gear. Think it and it’s happened! It’s a real adrenalin rush and extremely rewarding if you’re focused and on your game but, while I love to swap into full power mode for a blast I find medium and low power mode better for general road riding. Luckily, modes can be changed while on the move! :D
So, after just over a year of ownership, what do I think? The quality is there. The finish is superb and shows none of the 15,000 miles the bike has done. The handling is sharp and quick, making the K1300S feel a little lardy and ponderous by comparison, and the brakes (well, the front brakes) are excellent.
The seat comfort is improved with the Sargent seat but could still be a lot better, however it is a very easy bike to live with. You can ride it fast or ride it slow and it rewards and compliments your riding. It never feels flustered or that it’s struggling to do anything and there is always more there if you want it.
However, the jewel in the crown remains the engine, which has only got better with the recent flash. Instant, controllable, predictable, linear power from anywhere. It’s as close as I think you could get a petrol motorbike engine to an electric motor without removing any of the character of the petrol engine. It really has to be experienced to be appreciated but, trust me, after a K1300S, it really is the next step for a sports tourer.
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Nice review David.
Is that flash an official K one or a back-street-kids type?
You mentioned that low power mode is over 200. What do the other modes give, or is it how it is delivered that changes?
Who would ever have thought that you would end up spending voluntary time on a Sargent seat... 8)
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Lovely! David, what is your insurance cost for this little sausage? I believe when I was looking I found (35 ish, max NCB, the deadly Berkshire), the K was still around 400 but the H2 SX was over £1,200.
After the S debacle I dread to think and refuse to check!
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At the speed the Ninja goes, Matt, you can move to Oxfordshire - or even Gloucestershire - and still get to work on time, thus saving insurance money. ;D
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He wouldn't save on speeding fines though ???
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Reminds me of my old ZZR.... ah lovely things are big Kawasaki's.. 8)
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Nice review David.
Is that flash an official K one or a back-street-kids type?
You mentioned that low power mode is over 200. What do the other modes give, or is it how it is delivered that changes?
Who would ever have thought that you would end up spending voluntary time on a Sargent seat... 8)
The different power modes make a slight difference to top end but the delivery is noticeably "softer" in low power mode and will kick the traction control in a little earlier. While there is over 200bhp available it really would be very hard to be "caught out" by anything the bike does.
It's not an official Kawasaki flash but it's a very popular upgrade in the states.
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Lovely! David, what is your insurance cost for this little sausage? I believe when I was looking I found (35 ish, max NCB, the deadly Berkshire), the K was still around 400 but the H2 SX was over £1,200.
After the S debacle I dread to think and refuse to check!
Insurance this year was just under £700 and that's with 8 years NCD and a large claim ( 1 x K1300S MotrorSport - the Bambi victim) just 15 months ago. It also covers the carbon wheels.
That's in rural Suffolk and in a garage.
I cost of insurance on these did start high but is becoming more realistic.
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Thanks David, good to hear!
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But if teenagers like you start buying them Matt, the insurance is gonna go through the garage roof 8)
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But if teenagers like you start buying them Matt, the insurance is gonna go through the garage roof 8)
:D Call him a "youngster", Brian ;)
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Haha!
You know it's too cool for me, I'm sticking with my GS for the next 36 years :p
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Haha!
You know it's too cool for me, I'm sticking with my GS for the next 36 years :p
Brian is just jealous because he forgot how long ago it is that he looked like a youngster, Matt 8)
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You're as young as the (style of) bike you ride.
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And I'm having a reverse mid life crisis.
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Anyway ... Forgot to thank you for this update, David, this is one of the threads that interest me above average. But I continuously ask myself if this H2 SX wouldn't be too much for my riding abilities (and driver's license). Considering costs, I also made some calculations ... The K1300S came at 17000€ at the time (I'm speaking of 10 years ago), the SX SE comes at 22600€ now. Even considering 10 years of inflation have passed since then, I still have the impression it's a more expensive machine. Adding some firmware flash upgrade and other goodies, and the bill still increases. I agree that the maintenance cost isn't too far off, like you say.
It's quite interesting to read, from time to time, such detailed updates on this other exceptional bike ...
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Thanks for the feedback. It's good to know there is interest in what I'm writing.
A quick calculation using the UK RPI suggests the H2 SX SE is almost exactly the same price as the K1300S from 10 years ago. As for too much bike, it's just like the K1300S, easily capable of doing some very "naughty" things but very easy to manage in a way that allows for loads of fun without too much risk to life, limb, licence or liberty.
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Thanks for the feedback. It's good to know there is interest in what I'm writing.
A quick calculation using the UK RPI suggests the H2 SX SE is almost exactly the same price as the K1300S from 10 years ago. As for too much bike, it's just like the K1300S, easily capable of doing some very "naughty" things but very easy to manage in a way that allows for loads of fun without too much risk to life, limb, licence or liberty.
Aha, I did a quick head maths taking 2% inflation at ten years being not far off too :D.
I agree on two counts, I love this thread, and yeah after just the test ride (nobody check what I said at the time please) it's just as friendly as the K. Though I've not really ridden any modern bike that's had lots of power and been scary in the employment of any degree of it.
Although saying that I've almost only ridden BMWs due to either demo or broken bits on mine. Did try the gsxr1000 a year or so ago though. That was more wild than the s1000rr but still easy. And the gsxs1000 was just annoyingly hard suspension.
I like big bikes. :)
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I like big bikes. :)
Me too! When I'm out on the wee Honda (250cc, 24bhp, 70 odd mph) I get bounced around quite a bit but the HUGE problem is spotting an overtake, ripping the throttle open and sitting there wondering why nothing is happening.
Even worse is getting an overtake at lower speeds, getting the gear right and popping alongside only to find that up-shifting only decreases the noise, not the distance to the landing zone I spotted earlier.
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Thanks for the feedback. It's good to know there is interest in what I'm writing.
Oh blimey i’m Fascinated :) reading about such for no other reason it’s a million miles away from what floats my boat,I walked away from Jap big bikes in 1999,although in fairness keep my XT660X at the back of the garage just to remind me......
I have two 4 cylinder bikes the K and the X/R great bikes very effective but jeez neither could fill a thimble with character,but with an old boxer an almost as old Tiger triple and KTM 1290 that have plenty of warts and all, always interesting swapping between them.
As for speed.... my X/R got me 6 points in one go last year ::)
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Thanks for the feedback. It's good to know there is interest in what I'm writing.
Oh blimey i’m Fascinated :) reading about such for no other reason it’s a million miles away from what floats my boat,I walked away from Jap big bikes in 1999,although in fairness keep my XT660X at the back of the garage just to remind me......
I have two 4 cylinder bikes the K and the X/R great bikes very effective but jeez neither could fill a thimble with character,but with an old boxer an almost as old Tiger triple and KTM 1290 that have plenty of warts and all, always interesting swapping between them.
As for speed.... my X/R got me 6 points in one go last year ::)
I'll take that XT660X for you :P
Remind me, which is your old boxer? I still think fondly of the (yes I know not old at all) R Nine T mid-life-crisis liveried thing I rode last year. Someone is going to have to direct me to a bike with character one of these days!
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Where motorcycle ownership becomes so complicated this old bus wouldn't know which way that Kawasaki went over a tank full of fuel,but if A/B is a couple 100 or more this will do it at a steady 100mph and do it on a tank full(5 gallons) the tank is modded just about like everything else on the bike,but then I've had it over 20 years....
(https://i.ibb.co/sFHZFWk/2019-10-07-13-01-00.jpg)
Oh the XT
(https://i.ibb.co/yBQxcMP/2018-05-12-18-21-04.jpg)
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OK, So time for an update. Firstly the good news. The insurance this year was under £400 so I'm not in the slightest disappointed.
The bike appears to be handling it's age well. While still only 2 years/15,000 miles old, it still looks pristine. By the same age the BMWs were starting to show early signs age but I'd suggest that, at the moment, the Kawasaki looks "better quality" than the BMWs did.
Now the bad news! I'm now going to have to pay for being a power crazed maniac! Kawasaki have put out a recall for an issue (not seen on any of the forums) where the engine can over rev due to missed gear engagement when using the quick-shifter. The recall is for an ECU reflash, which will over write the flash I had done to give me 220bhp. :( According to the chat on the forums and the guidance from those doing the reflash, it's better to get the Kawasaki flash done (and the recall box ticked) then get the 220bhp flash written back over the top! It's not a huge technical or financial issue (the re re flash will be discounted) but the 220bhp flash was done in the US so I'll have no ECU, thus no bike, for about 3 weeks!
Still, it'll be all set up ready for the Old Gits trip to Northern Spain (if we're allowed to go) in June and I have a trip to ride a whole load of Alps passes, the Route des Grande Alpes and the Route Napoleon in September so I'll get to use every one of those 220 horses! (Well, maybe on the autobahn to get there!)
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Flip. Would that be when downshifting if one was unaware of how high the engine was and would be revving? I.e a silly billy? What does the fix do if one tries to smash it down when the new gear would take it over the redline?
I vaguely remember doing that on purpose in maybe an F1 game when it was too easy and over revving would fractionally degrade the engine performance. Computer games yaaay.
I almost accidentally rode to Kawasaki the other day.
Edit: have you ridden the SE+?
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I'm not sure what the actual issue with the quick shifter and changing gear but the bike has a slipper clutch which, I would have thought, should help limit any such down shifting damage.
I've not ridden an SE+ yet. Partially because of a lack of opportunity and partially because I don't want to know what I'm missing.
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I thought it was again time for a bit of an update. I had the Kawasaki recall done on the ECU and then sent it off again to Florida to be re-flashed. There is still no clarity on any of the forums as to what the Kawasaki recall changed/addressed. However, as a result of various customs and other postage issues, Vcyclenut in Florida, who provided my ECU flash, has now stopped shipping across "the pond" so mine will be one of the last such flashes in Europe. I just hope Kawasaki don’t do another recall.
While the commuting has been near non-existent, and the Old Gits trip to Northern Spain had to be cancelled :( , I did manage to get a week riding around the NC500 and other parts of Scotland. That was in the company of 1 x R1200GSA, 2 x KTM SD1290GT and 2 x K1300S. Again, the H2 SX showed that it was the perfect tool for such a trip. The panniers are a good size and swallowed a week’s worth of clothes with ease. I took my tailpack "just in case" but didn’t need it, even to carry the puncture repair kit, extra tools, chain spray, waterproofs etc.
I’d had the suspension set up at MCT prior to the trip, which gave a small but noticeable improvement in the ride/handling, and the addition of the panniers had little impact on the bike. While most of the trip was done at "admire the stunning view" speeds, there were a couple of occasions where there was "some enthusiasm" put into the riding (If you’ve not done it, try the Kinlockleven “long cutâ€, avoiding the A82 bridge :) We did it twice!). The panniers didn’t stop some new high scores being set on the dasboard lean-o-meter. Likewise, on one occasion where we found ourselves turning onto a very quiet dual carriageway with clear visibility, where there was the opportunity to pin the throttle all the way up to … er … 70mph, it was very noticeable how the KTMs got some clear space on the K1300Ss but couldn’t touch the H2 SX. Again, the commentary over the intercom from one of the KTM riders was "f*ck that thing is fast!" as he became an ever decreasing dot in my mirror. We completely lost the GSA at this point! ;)
However it wasn’t all good news. One of the KTMs got a hole in his radiator on day 2 of the trip. Despite some epoxy putty and RadWeld, as well as lots of knowledgeable sounding teeth sucking and tyre kicking, the problem couldn’t be fixed and he and the bike were shipped off to the other side of Scotland to the nearest KTM dealer for a new rad. It took the rest of the week for the rad to be delivered (costing £440 in parts – please note) so he hired a car and joined us at our overnight stops.
On day 6 I pulled into the hotel car park in Oban only to discover my radiator relieving itself onto the tarmac. Again, the epoxy putty and RadWeld were engaged to address a very nice little hole in the centre of the radiator, three rows up from the bottom. This time I was lucky, and the fix worked. There was a few worrying minutes while all the previously spilled rad contents boiled off the various bits of exhaust but there were no new puddles.
Moral of the story – buy a radiator guard!
The bike got me home and is now booked in for its annual service (based on time this year, not mileage) where a new radiator, at £770 for parts, (and you thought BMW were bad!!!) will be fitted, along with a radiator guard.
I’d had a set of RoadTec 01 SEs fitted before the trip (replacing Road 5s). Again, these proved to be nicer than the Road 5s with regards to speed of turn in and feel. I’ve not yet been riding on roads where the white lining I experienced previously would be a problem but I did feel that there was more reaction to over-banding than there had been with the Road 5s. I’ll wait and see how they wear but, at the moment, I think I still prefer the Road 5s, but only just.
Again, the Kawasaki was the bike that needed to visit the petrol station first, but the K1300Ss were only just behind. The KTMs and GSA all had bigger tanks so could have gone further.
The Kawasaki tended to need around a litre per tank more than the K1300Ss at each fill up but I was running it in medium power mode. The flash for medium power mode is set up with the focus on power delivery rather than fuel economy. Low power mode (still over 200bhp) has been set up to deliver optimum fuel economy and I suspect that, had I used that, I’d have required less fuel than the BMWs. I’m still not used to swapping power modes "in flight" so as to get the most from the economy when doing the boring bits, but enjoying the bike when the fun bits arrive. Even so, it’s averaging around 46-47mpg, as measured by the fuel poured into the tank which, I think is not too bad.
I and a few of the Old Gits are currently booked to do a run to, through and from the Alps in September. Given the current COVID situation, I suspect that the trip will also be cancelled :( but, if it does happen, then I’ll again be alongside 2 x K1300S and 2 x KTM SD1290GT. Those are both great bikes but I’m still 100% convinced that the H2 SX SE is better. I’m looking forward to getting more miles under its belt. :D
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Excellent write-up David, thanks.
The H2 SX still looks like the closest match to a K, even after 3-4 years of it being available.
Stones - hhm, maybe that's the main reason to keep the mud deflector/ladder on a K.
You might want to add a fender extender too - belt & braces, so to speak.
The secondhand prices of H2 XS SEs seem to be coming down towards K levels too - still a couple of £k to go, but not bad:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/202106264263772?advertising-location=at_bikes&sort=price-asc&include-delivery-option=on&make=KAWASAKI&model=NINJA%20H2%20SX
Still don't like the spikey design but it's a minor detail if it works!
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One of the guys in our group had a stone through his radiator on a Fireblade when we were on Skye. The following year he was sporting a rad guard.
Last year he was on a new Blade and on Skye and he put a stone through his rad again. He had traded his old Blade in and not transfered the stone guard.
Looks like a trip up to Scotland warrants stone guards as well as midge repellent.
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I have a fender extender fitted, as did the chap with the KTM. They may (or may not) reduce the risk of a hole in the rad but they don't stop such events. After 43 years of biking, and 40 since my first water cooled bike (I still remember my "plastic maggot" with great fondness), all done without a single holed radiator, I'm not a radiator guard convert.
I bet the chap on the Fireblade was annoyed at himself Tom. To get caught once is unlucky but twice! I don't know what it is about "Scottish stones", perhaps they were formed by millions of gallons of Irn Bru and deep fried Mars Bars wearing them to the hardest possible points over many millennia and making them magnetically attracted to radiators, but it does seem that the radiator casualty rate in Scotland is abnormally high. Apparently, that was the third replacement radiator the KTM dealer had fitted in two months.
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Excellent write-up David, thanks.
The H2 SX still looks like the closest match to a K, even after 3-4 years of it being available.
Stones - hhm, maybe that's the main reason to keep the mud deflector/ladder on a K.
You might want to add a fender extender too - belt & braces, so to speak.
The secondhand prices of H2 XS SEs seem to be coming down towards K levels too - still a couple of £k to go, but not bad:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bike-details/202106264263772?advertising-location=at_bikes&sort=price-asc&include-delivery-option=on&make=KAWASAKI&model=NINJA%20H2%20SX
Still don't like the spikey design but it's a minor detail if it works!
I just need 'my' insurance prices to go down for them!
Lovely update though David thanks!
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Unless it’s an old classic, doubt I see me/us buying another petrol driven bike, i’ve Seen the progress electric mountain bikes have made in the last 3 years, and with the Live Wire and Zero motorcycles coming our way to name just two, the writing is on the wall.
Yea yea I hear the range and charging being trotted out, but when we are into 250 miles and 45 minute charging, which frankly I do not think is 2 years away, it’s going be a whole new ball game.
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A quick update following the recent blast around the Alps saying farewell to the K1300S MotorSport owning Mark.
The bike was serviced just before the trip with a hefty bill of £1221 but .... the cost of buying and fitting the new radiator and the new guard accounted for almost £950 of that so the actual service wasn't too bad. I'm running a spreadsheet to compare the servicing costs of the H2 SX vs. my two K1300Ss and there is actually very little difference between all three if the costs of the holed radiator are removed. The servicing is now being done on a time basis as I'm not doing enough miles to need it on a mileage basis which will make continuing comparison a little difficult.
Part of the service was for a Kawasaki recall to replace the rear wheel hub bearing due to too little grease being applied at the factory. I had heard of this being a weak spot early on and had ensured it was well greased at previous services so, while mine was replaced, it was still in perfect condition. That mean that in over 30 months of ownership I've still not had to adjust the chain tension as tyre replacement, servicing etc. have all arrived at the time the chain needed adjusting. :D
The only other item of work done outside of the normal service was the replacement of the front wheel bearings.
So, to the trip. I was again impressed with the luggage capacity of the panniers. Packing for 9 days/nights, including alternative biking gear like gloves, tinted visor, waterproofs, floro waistcoat (for French Motorways) etc. plus rudimentary service items like TyreWeld, plug kit, chain lube (I'll explain that later to the BMW owners :D ) and a few tools, all fitted into two panniers and a small tank bag, and nothing was "rammed full". I could have left the tank bag at home and got everything in the panniers if I'd wanted to squash things in a little.
The bike handled the luggage really well. It wasn't particularly noticeable when riding although what was noticeable was that when the panniers are fitted, I get around 10 to 15 less miles to a tank when travelling at motorway speeds. That meant that the Kawasaki was always the first bike to need fuel on the trip but on most occasions the 2 K1300Ss were only about 10 miles or so off needing fuel themselves. The KTMs, with their 23l tanks, were drinking fuel as quickly as the other bikes but still had a good range left when we were filling up.
While not as comfortable as the seat on the K1300S, the Sargent seat with the AirHawk cushion was comfortable enough for 9 days, each of 7 to 9 hours in the saddle. Likewise, the overall ergos of the bike meant I was no more or no less in need of a stretch/change of position than any of the other riders.
When it came to performance, the difference between the bikes was very noticeable. The KTMs were easier and quicker to chuck around the hairpins than the K1300Ss but, as regards acceleration, there was little to choose between them. That meant that when we were all trying, the KTMs would consistently pull out some space on the BMWs. The Kawasaki was as least as quick around the hairpins as the KTMs but was noticeably quicker on acceleration, whatever speed we started from. The extra 45+bhp was both noticeable and usable. It meant I was always running with performance in reserve, even when the others were pushing towards the max, and on the occasions where the opportunities allowed for the full potential of the Kawasaki to be used, it pulled away from the other bikes with reasonable ease.
I had Metzler RoadTec 01 SE tyres fitted before the Scotland trip and these were superb. Only on wet over banding on tight switchback hairpins did I get any movement from them, and that was not significant or hugely worrying. They were completely sure footed in the wet and allowed for lean angles up to around 40 degrees (my limit, not the tyres limit) and handled some really serious lean angles (up to 55 degrees) in the dry with complete confidence. While it's totally a subjective judgement, I'd say these are better both in the wet and at more extreme lean angles, wet or dry, than the Michelin Road 5s. That said, the rear is pretty much worn out at a little over 5500 miles (probably about 2000 less than I'd expect from a Road 5) so the apparent extra grip is being paid for in mileage. Given I no longer do the big commuting miles I used to, it's quite possible I'll stick with the better grip/slightly less mileage compromise.
The white lining issues I'd experienced with my previous set of RoadTec 01s, on my MotorSport, were probably still there but the roads I've been riding have meant that there were significantly fewer situations where that would be a problem.
Now, with over 21k miles on it, the Kawasaki H2 SX SE is still proving to be a superb bike. The finish is still spot on and the bike cleans up like new. Despite getting "familiar" with it, the performance is still breathtaking. The ride remains plush enough for both motorways a bumpy back roads while the handling is better than anything else I'd consider using for a 2800 mile, 9 day Alps passes blast. Sure, a super naked would get up the passes quicker, and a tourer would be more relaxing on the motorway but no single bike could do it all any better. Even the likes of the S1000XR would have been totally outclassed when we hit the unrestricted sections Autobahn. Only the K1300S and the SD1290GT get anywhere close.
It is worth mentioning that the two KTM SD1290GT owners were both extremely happy with their bikes. One of the owners had been a long term (8+ years) K1300S owner and felt that the KTM did everything the K1300S did, only just a little better. After much discussion over a number of beers on the trip, I think that the general agreement was that the H2 SX was the slightly better bike but, even if you could still get one new, no one, including me, was sure that the benefits were worth the extra cost over the SD1290GT. (Unless, of course, you feel a little "inadequate" and need to compensate! Well, that's my justification! ;) )
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Thanks David, great write-up as always!
Related to your last paragraph and having surveyed your KTM boys: were/are there any standard of finish concerns from them? Having come from BMW I'd imagine they're used to such!
I'm now off to do my annual insurance quotes for both bikes :). :winkthumbs:
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There were no issues or concerns from the KTM boys for either finish or reliability. The only comment was that the older KTM that didn't have the TFT screen, was harder to read the instruments in the sunshine.
The fairing on the SD1290GT is noticeably smaller than on both the K1300S and the H2 SX. That meant there was slightly less weather protection. It didn't cause any significant issues either during the rain, or on the 150mph autobahn run, but it was commented on.
Both the KTM boys were seriously impressed with the semi-active suspension, and could notice the difference as road surfaces and pace changed.
The one place that the H2 SX really out shone the KTMs was on flexibility. The transition from open road speeds to village road speeds and back up to open road speeds was regularly done in 6th gear on the H2 SX (and on the BMWs) where the KTMs were having to drop from 4th/5th down to second, then back up to 4th/5th. With the up and down quick shifter, that wasn't a huge issue but it didn't stop the chatter on the intercoms consistently mentioning what gear we were each in. ;)
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Ah the 30 zone dropping a few gears is something I noticed with my 1250GS too.
Well my quick quoting has shown the H2 SX SE to maintain its place at the top of the quotes (~800GBP if you must know!), whereas a 20 plate 1290GT is down at 4-500 for similar providers. And yes yes, it's lots but remember... loose lips sink ships!
Stage 2 is to see if I can find a low seat for the KTM. And then maybe remember my photocard if I ride to my closest garage again.
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Good luck and enjoy the test ride. :winkthumbs:
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And book that Suzuki in for November whilst you're at it. For our benefit, not yours - naturally.
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So, it's that time of year again, and I've pulled the H2 SX out of the back of the shed for its MoT. This will only be the second time it's been on the road since September last year due to a number of other commitments, and the timing of bad weather. (My free weekends since Sept. almost always aligned with bad weather! :( )
At 25.5k miles, and 5 years, the original chain still looks fine. I'll be surprised if I need to replace it before the autumn, so I expect another 4000 - 5000 miles out of it. The eScottOiler seems to have been worth the money. The move from shaft drive to chain has been really easy - far easier than I thought it was going to be.
The bikes components, fasteners etc. still look like new. They have lasted MUCH better than those on my BMWs did. The bike was expensive but it's easy to understand where Kawasaki spent the money.
After 5 years the engine is still sublime. Stump pulling torque in every gear right across the rev. range. It can still go very fast very quickly or it's just as happy in 6th gear at 30mph, if asked.
I was looking at replacing it this autumn (with another H2 SX SE) but the condition it's in and the way it rides means I'll probably hold onto it until autumn 2024.
I'm still one very happy owner! :)
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I'm pleased David. Your experiences really have been revelatory.
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Oh! :o It looks like Plod are staring to catch on!
(https://mcn-images.bauersecure.com/wp-images/195120/822x548/kawasaki-h2-sx-police-01.jpg)
The latest in unmarked technology!
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2023/march/north-yorkshire-police-kawasaki-ninja-h2-sx/
I wonder if they'll get it flashed? :D
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I saw that and nearly posted the link but I didn't want to scare anyone... :)
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On a related note I rode past Alton Bahnstormer yesterday and police were on the empty forecourt with 2 or 3 black GSs.
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...and they very often sit in the lay by opposite on unmarked bikes and just follow you through the 30 limit and wait for you to crack it when you reach the 50. We've often ridden at 49.999 for miles on the way to Loomies until they get pissed off and turn back. ;D
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So, the H2 SX SE and I are safely back from the fun of the Old Gits trip. Yet again, the bike proved to be ideal for the tasks of eating motorway miles, carrying large amounts of luggage, having great fun on the passes and dealing with long, hot and intense days. 3,000 miles and the bike never missed a beat or put a foot (tyre?) wrong.
It was serviced before I left. it had almost 27,000 miles on the clock so it was less than 7,500 miles since the last service, thus was done on time rather than mileage. This should have been a "big" service, with valve checks but the dealer said that the valves are totally based on mileage so if I'f not done the miles, they saw no point in me paying a big bill. The service was £203.16 and there was nothing other than the usual consumables.
I also had a new set of RoadTec 01SEs fitted ready for the trip. The PR6s were not quite dead but there was only about 1000 miles left in the rear so I was not going to make the whole trip on them. I also found the worn PR6s to be not quite as good as new 01SEs so was happy with the change.
The bike is still on the original chain but the trip to Italy demonstrated nicely just what over 200bhp can do to a chain that's on its 5th season and has had nearly 30,000 miles use. The chain needed significant adjustment when I returned though we've still not reached the end of the adjustment range. It'll see out the rest of this season and be replaced over the winter.
The finish of the bike (when it's not encrusted with dead Italian insects) is still spot on. It has lasted much better than any of my K1?00Ss and really puts BMW to shame.
So, was it still the right choice? The engine is still stunning. The handle is still quick and easy (for a big girl) and everything still looks good and does exactly what it's supposed to so, absolutely 100% it is the right bike to replace the K1300S. A friend who has also owned 3 x K1300S has just been through the process of looking for a replacement for his most recent K. Again, he loved the K1300S and really wanted an updated version of the same, He also didn't want to get the same bike as me on principal! He test rode the usual suspects, S1000XR, SD1290GT, Multistrada V4 Pike Peak and the H2 SX. He said that the others were good but the H2 SX was better a pretty much everything so, My H2 SX had company on the Old Gits trip. :D
My company circumstances are changing which is resulting in my looking for a new bike this autumn, to be on the road in the spring. No prizes for guessing what I'm going for. :D
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Very good, David! It certainly looks sweet in the green metallic paintwork. I'm still not convinced by the seat, the chain and the spiky bits of bodywork, but they're minor details. Actually, the seat isn't minor, but you did say an Airhawk brings it round.
I'll be looking carefully at one in about 20k more K miles.
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It's all excellent news David and I am delighted that you have found us the ideal K1300S replacement. By comparison, the OEM chain on my then 6 month old Honda 250 was thrown away because it was rock solid; took it off and held it by one end and there was nary a droop, could have fenced for England with it.
An H2 SX SE pulled out of Cool Covers behind me at lunchtime and behaved himself (mature rider) all the way through the speed limits and out into the country. At my first overtake opportunity (I was in the car) I was gone and expected him to follow me through and finish the queue I couldn't quite manage. How disappointing. The last I saw of him he was still sitting in the traffic. Such a waste of such devastating performance. I was tempted to stop and wave him down and offer to swap...
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The chain was one of my big concerns but has been a real eye opener. 5 seasons and 30K miles and it's still useable. I think I've adjusted it about 4 times in that and adjustment is simply loosen 2 bolts, use a large C spanner to move the rear hub on the eccentric cam then tighten up 2 bolts! As easy as checking the corrosion on the BMW final drive! ;)
I do have a ScottOiler fitted and the chain gets cleaned with WD40 and spayed with a can of chain lube when the bike is washed.
Roger had no issues with the seat on his so I think it's "bum specific". The same as I never had an issue with a K1?00S seat, doing 600+ mile, 12 hour days where some did have problems, but found Brian's Sargent seat absolute torture (way worse than the standard H2 SX seat). For me, the AirHawk on the H2 SX means all day, mega mile comfort. (The H2 SX's didn't need to stop at Bethune on the return run! ;) )
As for the looks! I agree that the "pointy angular nose" is just plain ugly but the rest of the bike is pretty good and:
A. You can't see the nose when you're riding it;
B. Most others will only get to see the tail as it disappears into the distance.
:D
As offered on the trip, if youd like to try mine, you'd be very welcome, but make sure your wallet is well stocked as your next visit would likely be the Kawasaki dealer! :D
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I actually rather like the pointy bits. I didn't when I first saw it, I've always been a bulbous nose sort of guy (Honda CB900F2C, CBR1000, BMW R1000RS sort of thing) but the angles on the Kwack look good, but only in Kermit green.
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I noticed yours and Roger's had slightly different front ends. Face-lift?
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Yes. The 2022 on model has softer lines than the original 2018 on model. I still don't think they could ever be described as attractive but as we all know, you can forgive failings in the looks department if the ride is good and she goes well when asked! :D
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Deposit paid on a 2023 Kawasaki Ninja H2 SX SE Performance Tourer (to give it the full model designation) to be delivered in spring 2024. :D
I've been a BMW fan since my R100RS in 1983, feeling that BMW are a "quality brand" that make bikes that are great for "getting the job done". I tried various Hondas and Yamahas throughout my riding career and, while they've been fine, I had never found anything that felt as right as the BMWs. The K1300S was, for me, unmatched in the delivery of performance, comfort, practicality, usability and quality (although reliability was always its Achilles Heal.)
Well, Kawasaki has matched or bettered BMW in every way. Compared to the K1300S performance is better, comfort is equaled (with an AirHawk), practicality is better (K1300S owners don't understand under seat storage :D ), usability is as better, quality is better and reliability is significantly better. Compared to the current BMW offerings (R1250RS/GS, S100XR) the Kawasaki is miles ahead.
I can only assume I am now part of a market segment that BMW are no longer interested in, those who want a "proper" sports tourer. A sports bike that can take hard luggage and carry a pillion.
In deciding on the H2 SX SE I did consider a number of alternatives even if I didn't actually test ride the. The new 'Busa was interesting but doesn't have a hard luggage option. Both the Z1000SX and the GSXS1000GT are interesting but both are outclassed (and out priced!!! :( ) by the H2 SX and the KTM SD1290GT was again in second place but Matts issues on his recent trip confirmed that, for me, the SD1290GT was second, not first, choice. Add to that my carbon wheels will not fit anything else! :D
I'll hang on to my 2019 H2 SX until next summer as Mark, my Australian friend, will be in the UK next year at the time of the Old Gits trip and will need a bike to borrow. After that, I'll probably be looking to move it on.
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David, having just read and responded acidly to, a post about BMW dealers not bothering to answer the phone and not having seen anything in your Kawasaki ownership updates about the dealers, I wonder what your experiences have been like.
I have been more than impressed with your being impressed with the Kwak, especially some of the things that might, on initial look, put a K owner off buying one, other than price that is; chain life and lack of problems therewith, quality of finish so far, performance and comfort etc.
So come on, tell all, from initial approach when you showed interest, through the sales process, how they treated you when it came time to service the beast, any recalls or warranty work needed and so on.
For me, the big let down with my 12 years of K ownership, even more than reliability and quality of finish, has been the lack of enthusiastic support from dealers when things go awry.
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The BMW dealers definitely feel more "up market". with the plush showrooms, nice coffee machines lots of space to walk between the bikes etc. but the service I have received from Orwell Motorcycles in Ipswich has been just as good. With the exception of what they suggested the cost/time needed for fitting the impact protection film, I don't feel in any way that I've been either ignored or ripped off. They answer my questions quickly and efficiently, deal with the bike professionally and offer things like loan bikes and winter servicing deals.
The sales team were happy for me to test ride the bike I wanted for as long as I wanted with no more than the usual insurance declaration. I was kept informed throughout the purchase process and the bike was ready for collection when I wanted. With the new bike, they offered me the best deal compared to other dealers, as I was an existing customer. The desk I sat at to sign documents was smaller and more cramped than it would be in a BMW show room but it didn't make the experience any worse.
Servicing has cost pretty much the same as the cost of servicing both my K1300Ss. With 7500 miles between services there are fewer services than on the BMW. The big valve and supercharger check service is slightly more painful than the one on the BMW, but not by much. The cost of parts also seems pretty comparable with BMW.
As for recalls, there have been three as I remember it. All have been done by the dealer as quickly (or slowly) as I wanted them done. The only one that caused me frustration was the re-flash of the ECU but that was only because I'd had it flashed outside of the Kawasaki dealer network to remove the Kawasaki imposed neutering.
The dealer has been happy to fit non-standard parts such as revised gearing sprockets, carbon wheels and a Scott Oiler. Again, no issues and no suggestion of any implications in relation to the likes of warranty.
All in all, I've been perfectly happy with the dealer experience. As good as BMW.
With regards to price, I don't disagree that it's a lot of money but I think we need to be realistic when comparing with BMW. If you allow for inflation then both my current bike (2019) and the one I'm just about to purchase are less than 5% different to the cost of both my K1300S Sport (2013) and my K1300S MotorSport (2016). I'd suggest that if BMW still offered a K1300S it would be, give or take a few pounds, the same price.
Finally, as for finish, there's no competition. The Kawasaki has the better finish that has lasted much longer than the BMW.
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4 years warranty! Shows their confidence.
Yes, your words got me onto my local Kawasaki flipping dealer site again!
Jesus H they've got... well look at this page, how does one work out which one they want/need?!
Greenham Kawasaki New Sports Tourers (https://www.greenhamkawasaki.co.uk/kawasaki-new-bikes/category/sport-tourer/)
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When I looked at that I also found the range confusing - it's difficult spot/understand what the £4k price differential buys you.
It's the same engine & frame (i.e. base bike) as far as I could tell, but with the usual slightly random bundles of extras - some you will definitely want (panniers, quickshift), some you probably don't need (radar, cornering lights).
They need a bike configuration site.
I think this is it:
https://www.kawasaki.co.uk/en/products/Sport_Tourer/2023/Ninja_H2_SX_SE/overview?Uid=08D7CgleW19fDQpdDA5dXAwOWVBfXlgKX1BYWwpdUQ5fUA0
But they missed the config bit :-)
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It's really not that difficult!
Approach 1. Pick the one with the biggest price! :D
Approach 2. Two models
H2 SX and H2 SX SE. SE model includes things like electronic suspension and curnering lights.
Both can have the performance pack added.
Both can have the tourer pack added.
Both can have the performance AND the tourer pack added.
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Hmm, but no actual definition of what the 'SE', 'Touring' and 'Performance' packs actually contain for your £4k. :blank:
I know you've stated some it but it must be defined somewhere. Stylema brakes in 'SE" spec, maybe an Akra in 'Performance'?
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All the details are on the Kawasaki web site.
https://www.kawasaki.co.uk/en/products/Sport_Tourer/2023/Ninja_H2_SX_SE_Performance_Tourer/overview?Uid=0900CgsODVleWQtaXlgLXAkNWlBbUV0MUVxfDQoOUF5RXQw
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Ah ha! Its the 'Features' link. That is subtle. I thought all that text was all one link. They need to change the 'hover over' text colour.
And the 'Drag' slider is the visual hint as to what changes.
Thanks David!
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You're welcome, though I do agree that a simple tick box list of optional extras would be easier.
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You're welcome, though I do agree that a simple tick box list of optional extras would be easier.
Or even a compare function. Still, your point is valid, I did just work my way to the one with the most letters after its name!
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You're welcome, though I do agree that a simple tick box list of optional extras would be easier.
Or even a compare function. Still, your point is valid, I did just work my way to the one with the most letters after its name!
:D
I don't think any individual add-on appears in more than on "package" thus the comparison is simply with the selected add-ons fitted, or not! The slider bar does that.
My current bike is the SX SE Performance Tourer and I don't think there is a single add-on that I'd choose not to have fitted, including the cornering lights and the smoked screen. The cornering lights are OK on dark country lanes and help with the otherwise mediocre headlight (compared to the K1300S HID enhanced headlight I had before. The H2 SX headlight is better than the stock BMW unit but is MUCH more difficult to upgrade being LED!).
As such, simply going for the bike with the biggest price tag is the easiest way to navigate the options! :D :D :D
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I just happened to glance at the R100RS whilst navigating the death trap that is my garage and thought how simple things were back in 1997. Although someone did have to decide whether to have the optional new-fangled alloy wheels...
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Thanks for the dealer-oriented stuff David.
You are right about the price I guess. Those of us who only change bikes every 5-10 years or so have little idea of how high new bike prices are rising.
The bit about the flashy and spacious BMW showrooms is mainly, I think, to do with the car side of the business.
Although bike-only dealers such as Bahnstormer Alton are OK and have the corporate ID, they are not car-showroom flashy although waayyyy better than my local Honda bike-only dealer.
I think BMW are the only folks who mix bikes and cars, often to the annoyance of some toffee-nosed BMW car owners who don't understand why fly-spattered hooligans are nicking all their buns. As overheard in North Oxford Garage bike department from some posh woman who had obviously wandered too far from the safety of the comfy armchairs 'Oh dear, don't tell me that BMW have started selling noisy motorcycles. How gross.' :evil: (Sorry about the emoji, it is the only one left working on my iPad this week)
The bit about fitting non-OEM parts is interesting. I know some BMW dealers are happy to, whilst others simply refuse. Whether that is down to the dealer or the relationship (did you buy your bike from us?) I don't know.
It's good to know that the 'risk' you took swapping marques has proved to be a positive experience and one I am sure others will follow now that BMW don't was sports-tourer types as customers.
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I just happened to glance at the R100RS whilst navigating the death trap that is my garage and thought how simple things were back in 1997. Although someone did have to decide whether to have the optional new-fangled alloy wheels...
I think you have miss typed! :D The R100RS was launched in 1976. My first one was a 1978 bike then. later I had a 1981 bike. As you say, simple but robust, reliable and quality (for the time) engineering. My first bike was subject to an alloy wheel recall where BMW replaced the front wheel as they were prone to cracking and, ultimately, collapse.
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Er, yes, by 20 years...
Mine is a 1977 one with the optional alloys (worn and pitted and stacked under the bench with some hard as nails rubber on them) as well as the original spoked wheels which are immaculate, unused and look lovely on the bike.