Author Topic: Thinking of leaving the Stone Age!  (Read 15825 times)

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Offline raesewell

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Re: Thinking of leaving the Stone Age!
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2015, 10:23:15 am »
I don't think the thread is over. We are just waiting for Brian to be less busy so that he can do a review of his Sat Nag and Sena 20S.
Over to you Brian  ;D

Offline Phmode

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Re: Thinking of leaving the Stone Age!
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2015, 02:15:16 pm »
Neat solution. I applaud your blue-sky thinking but doubt I could cope with the time and effort spent finding the solution; I tend to go with the flow.

The flow in my case turned out to be a Garmin Zumo 660LM bought new/secondhand off the net from a guy who bought it to encourage himself to do more bike touring; needless to say that worked, not! This replaced, after a lot of phaffing, my ancient, geriatric and eventually ex, Garmin Streetpilot 2820.

The second flow was to replace my entire Autocom system with a Sena 20S which is impossible to fit as per the manufacturer's recommendations to a Schuberth C3, surely one of the commonest lids around in the premium, loadsa wodge to spend, well-heeled-BMW-riding set; i.e. us!

For anyone else still in the 'Stone Age' (or Brick Age) here is my take on getting modern, what it has meant for me and whether it was worth it.

The Garmin was a good buy, virtually unused, certainly on a bike, and didn't need too much in the way of getting used to, coming as I did from the same old school. It fitted in place of the old unit, in fact, being much slimmer than the 'brick' it replaced, it went on a shorter RAM mount on the Hornig RAM ball fitting on the inner end of the left bar which left the cockpit less cluttered and made for a much neater installation.

The loom that replaced the old Autocom wiring system (that was larger and more complex than some I have removed from aircfaft electronics bays in the past) is a neat 'lazy loop' fitment and allows the use of the Garmin Traffic receiver with less clutter.

To save time, I wired it directly across the battery with the intention of moving it back to the old BMW Canbus plug when time allowed, but having used it for a week or so now, I am leaving it where it is. One benefit of having it across the battery (at least compared to the brick which was on the canbus plug) is that it doesn't do a reset/restart every time you start the engine so no more sitting waiting for the thing to power up to see which way gets me out of the town centre fuel stop I just went off route to find.

There are some things from the old brick that I really miss; the clunky, easy-to-locate-without-looking 'Find', 'Menu', 'Map' and 'Speak' buttons which allowed instant access to the bits they list without having to look at the screen, scroll around and then poke at the bit you want.

There are some things I like, such as the 'Where Am I?' feature that gives instant access to your current location with some chance of finding fuel, police, hospitals and, if you are a member, the AA roadside assistance for one. Sitting outside a poorly sign-posted Guarda Civil (local police) office in Spain, trying to find the local Guarda Civil (local police) office, the Garmin told me the nearest one was 60 Km away in that -> direction. Ten minutes later, trying to find the local hospital, it told me it was 30 Km away when it was actually just over the road and round the corner. So, useful as it is, it doesn't always deliver and like all things it has its limitations.

The one big thing I hate is having to go 'Back', then 'Back', then 'Back' again and again and again to get out of where you just were, then hit the 'View Map' icon, just so you can see the bl@@dy map and the route directions once more. All screens really should have a 'Map' button on them so you can easily go back to the feature for which you bought the damn thing in the first place; another example of software being written by 7-year-olds who don't use the stuff they produce.

The biggest problem with the switch to the modern era was the switch from MapSource (which was wonderful, simple, complex, full-featured and never let me down) to BaseCamp (which is perceived by many, including me, as being un-fathomable, un-documented and un-useable).

I would have gone the Tyre route had I not already dragged my sorry backside out of the PC world into the shiny new world of Apple back at Christmas time.

I have never had much success with importing routes from other sources and getting them to work in my Garmin; the 'Wrinklies Chasing the Sun' run was one example, the Old Gits Picos trip was the latest.

There are a number of ways of importing routes but the way I chose put 1,199 waypoints in a day's ride-out route that David's (black-k1) identical unit needed only 14 to plot correctly. Now, this may have been a function of the way I downloaded from Dropbox and then uploaded the files, but either way it isn't obvious to me how to do it, and Garmin don't explain how to do it, simply. So, in this respect the modern era is just as bad as the stone age.

Another feature I don't get with Garmin, is how they can produce map updates that don't fit on the memory of the units they sell. When I first got the 660 about 6 weeks ago, I updated the maps and they fitted on the 4Gb memory in the unit. When I next updated the maps a few days before the off to Spain, they were too big and had to go on my 32Gb card (4Gb supplied as standard with the unit afaik). Makes one wonder why they put accessible memory in the thing in the first place.

The biggest 'plus' for the modern era is that the unit has a battery; this may come as a shock to many, but the brick had none, so if you weren't on the bike you had to do without playing with it or you had to carry the power supply on trips. Also, the ease of transferring routes via an SD card is a revelation; again, the old brick had none and only about 800M(ega)b of on-board memory.

The dreaded 're-drawing' of the maps that some folks complain about vehemently, that seemingly happens at the least opportune moment, hasn't happened on my unit, it is much quicker to initialise, TTFF is much, much quicker as is solving a route. TTFF is Time To First (satellite) Fix and is about 15 seconds on a warm start compared to 45 on a cold start but this is much faster than the old brick.

The Lane Assist is neat, but for me it happens about a mile too soon; others think it is fine as it is. For a bear of little brain like me, showing me what the road and the signage looks like a mile before the up-coming junction is a waste of time and effort because by the time I get there I have blinked, changed thought patters, had a quick nap and now can't remember what the screen looked like back when they showed it to me.


As for the Sena, I think the jury is still out on lots of its features. The supplied clamp fitting won't work with the Schuberth C3 and I ended up with it stuck on with half of the supplied sticky pad and the remainder filled in with silicone. It seems fine and solid but not what the makers recommend.

It is not the easiest of units to get to grips with, both metaphorically and physically. There are way too many functions to memorise on first use and many that lots of users will never utilise, like the FM radio perhaps. Also, on the Schuberth, the unit sits further back than on some helmets due to the presence of the sun-visor mechanism and to some extent the shaping of the side of the nape of the helmet; this makes it slightly more difficult to get my hand to it than it might otherwise.

The various volume settings needed playing with as the Garmin instructions were very garbled initially but are now fine. Being wire-free, the unit has a degree of lag when it first gives a direction instruction after a long period of inactivity such as at the exit of a long motorway run, one assumes as the system has to 'wake up'. This results in instructions such as '.....and take the third exit!'. Do what and take the third exit? Not having a 'Speak' button (which used to repeat the last spoken command on the brick) was interesting until I figured out how to make it repeat the command.

I didn't bother attempting to use the intercom feature with other riders, so can't report on that at the moment.

So, overall, what is the result of my modernisation?

Strangely, although I did wonder if this might be the case, the bit I like most about the modern set up is the lack of wiring clutter. There were many metres of cables on the bike feeding both the Garmin and the Autocom, not to mention the bike-to-bike radio, push-to-talk switch etc etc. This lack of clutter is almost worth the financial outlay by itself. Also, not being tethered to the bike by the Autocom lead is a wonderfully liberating thing. I have never walked off and lynched myself as some have, but I have, consistently and infuriatingly, failed to re-connect myself when I set off after a fuel stop or a photo opportunity, which means a quick stop to get back on line.

I had no option but to change virtually everything, my old Garmin brick was getting old and crotchety, much like myself, despite being a chunky and handsome thing......

It eventually died the death just after I had updated the maps and installed the routes for the Picos trip and is now sitting there, all forlorn, sulking at having been replaced, but stubbornly refusing to show even a glimmer of life.

My Autocom system was getting flaky in the cables department and could easily have cost more to resurrect than the new Sena, what with the number of cables and the cost of same.

Whilst there may be a market on fleabay for some of the bits, I find it difficult to off-load such broken bits on some unsuspecting soul and so I feel it is off to the recycling centre with it all.

If anyone has a use for an as-new hex key thingy for the locking Garmin Streetpilot 26xx-28xx Genuine Garmin cradle, or even the cradle itself, I will happily pop them in the post foc along with any of the cable bits and bobs if anyone has the need. The Autocom is a Pro 7 Sport and as far as I know, 'it' is working fine, as is the Kenwood radio, so again, if anyone has the need either for use or for spares, just drop me a pm. All come with full instructions as when new.

Brian (who is now fully in the modern era, apart from the dreadfully outdated bike that he now finds himself riding  ::) )


« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 02:17:50 pm by Phmode »

Offline Phmode

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Re: Thinking of leaving the Stone Age!
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2015, 02:17:01 pm »
I don't think the thread is over. We are just waiting for Brian to be less busy so that he can do a review of his Sat Nag and Sena 20S.
Over to you Brian  ;D

Gawd Rae, you is so 'I want what I want when I want it!'

Brian (who hopes you is now satisfied  ;D )
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 05:36:38 pm by raesewell »

Offline raesewell

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Re: Thinking of leaving the Stone Age!
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2015, 05:37:00 pm »
I don't think the thread is over. We are just waiting for Brian to be less busy so that he can do a review of his Sat Nag and Sena 20S.
Over to you Brian  ;D

Gawd Rae, you is so 'I want what I want when I want it!'

Brian (who hopes you is now satisfied  ;D )

I did say "when you were less busy"
However, a good write up, I didn't like the 660 and went back to Tomtom. I will be interested to hear how the Sena performs once you have had a chance to use it long term.
Melanies Scala G4 packed up while we were in Devon. PAMA now have new modules for sale on their website for £50 after I badgered them.

Here is a link to the PAMA site (Pama are the UK importers for Cardo (Scala))
http://www.pama.com/wholesale/Pama_Spare_Parts

This could be a cheap way to go wireless the mounting units are still available, ebay is a good source.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 05:42:06 pm by raesewell »

Offline Phmode

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Re: Thinking of leaving the Stone Age!
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2015, 09:53:11 pm »
I had already written the bones of it so it was only a matter of spool-chucking it and posting.

Brian (who knew Rae would want it before I had even used it  ??? )

Offline slparry

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Re: Thinking of leaving the Stone Age!
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2015, 09:23:06 am »
I currenlty have a Garmin Streetpilot 2820 'brick' coupled to an Autocom system and a Kenwood bike-to-bike radio.

This is all vintage stuff dating from about 8-10 years ago and I feel the time is fast approaching to change up to some more modern stuff. The Garmin is creaking at the seams with the ever bigger map updates every few months and is also starting to play up; constantly requiring sreen calibration over and over while attempting to navigate the traffic on the Cote d'Azur last summer and attempting to make me go back to the start of a navitgated route when it disagreed with the 'leader' whose sat nav is always correct, even if it is wrong.

Apart from this it has been faultless and does not suffer from the modern Garmin Achille's heel of re-drawing the map just as you come to a T junction or stop at the bottom of a motorway slip road.

Also, the Autocom system is showing its age with sporadic volume adjustments etc. It may just need a new set of cables but I am loathe to throw money at stuff that may not fix the problem. In the 'good old days' I would simply have taken a drive to Warwick and the gnomes at Autocom would have had it like new in a couple of shakes of a lamb's wotsit but since they got reverse taken over their service has slipped, particularly for legacy products like mine.

The range on the radio is not what it used to be on my GS due to the location limitations on the K and the mess of wiring when you throw in a PTT switch on the bars has to be seen to be believed.

So, here's my conundrum. Do I ditch it all and start over? Do I just ditch the Autocom and radio and go all Bluetooth with a Sena or a Scala?

I 'never' take a pillion so don't need sophisticated prioritising. I 'never' listen to music (there have been exceptions but very rarely) so don't need that.

Riding solo, I do rely on the sat nav almost exclusively for routhing and directions but always have maps with me when abroad.

What have you got?
Has anyone paired a modern bluetooth helmet mounted system with an old bluetooth enabled sat nav?
Is bike-to-bike radio old hat now that the Sena 20S has an open-country range of 2 km?
I have an iPhone 4S.

Brian (who wonders how we ever managed back in the day)

So is this Streetpilot up for sale Brian? :)
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Offline Phmode

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Re: Thinking of leaving the Stone Age!
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2015, 03:06:12 pm »
PM sent!