Hello

[late to the party]

Hi folks, just joined today having spent a few days guesting and reading some of the forum posts.
My wife and I need a bike to commute into that London on so I put a £200 deposit down on a K1200s at a dealer on Monday but having since read all the horror stories I'm thinking of cancelling the purchase and buying something else.  There's not many people across the web have had a positive experience with them and most report numerous and expensive defects.
Come Saturday, assuming I actually pay the balance, this will be my first 'owned' BMW although I have experience of riding many of my employers BMWs from R80RT's to S1000RR and K1300S.
I might be here next week.

[raesewell]

There have been trouble free K1200s's it's just the the people that have problems shout loudest, You don't find many people starting a thread to tell you nothing is wrong. Although I did with the FJR just to prove a point. 

[richtea]

Welcome lately,

I'll leave the small number of dual 1200/1300 owners to guide you on which is best.

What I would say is the 1200/1300 may not be the ideal London commuter bike - although I guess with a pillion in mind it might be a bit more compact than say the some big Boxers / GTs. Perfectly usable in town, but possibly more suited to swift long distance touring.

[black-k1]

I've had a K1200S and two K1300Ss, all of which I used as long range commuters from Suffolk into the centre of London. 

While the K1200S was a great bike to ride,  I wouldn't have another.  There are a few that have had no issues but there are also a lot which have lots of very expensive problems. The K1300S is a better bike and the extra purchase cost over the K1200S is likely to be considerably less than the 1200s extra repair costs.

The K1300S isn't perfect and weaknesses such as the radiator can be a real pain. Buy a BMW warranty and they are superb to ride and make up for their issues.

As regards commuting on one, they make great commuter bikes. They're easy to ride fast or slow, comfortable and reasonably economical. The folding mirrors make squeezing through gaps easier than you would think.  If you want a large capacity bike to commute on,  I don't think it can be beaten.

[Phmode]

Like David, I too have owned both and still have the K13S.

I wouldn't use a K12 for the London commute. As others have said, many are faultless but mine was a pig in fits and starts and would, had I been paying a dealer to keep it running for daily use, would have cost me more than I paid for it.

The K13 is a MUCH better bike. However, neither is the perfect commuter, depending on the length and type of your commute, from where and to where. There are much more reliable and less costly-to-run bikes out there. They won't hold a candle to a K on the sports/touring front but you are not doing sports or touring. Also, David's bikes are paid for by his company which offsets some of his running costs.

If I were in the market for a commuter, a decent 600 with weather protection and a great topbox would be my choice. Something boring and bland from the far east which will not cost a lot to run, won't set fire to your trousers but which will go on and on, day after day.

Oh and welcome to the madhouse that is EuroKClub!

[black-k1]

Like David, I too have owned both and still have the K13S.

I wouldn't use a K12 for the London commute. As others have said, many are faultless but mine was a pig in fits and starts and would, had I been paying a dealer to keep it running for daily use, would have cost me more than I paid for it.

The K13 is a MUCH better bike. However, neither is the perfect commuter, depending on the length and type of your commute, from where and to where. There are much more reliable and less costly-to-run bikes out there. They won't hold a candle to a K on the sports/touring front but you are not doing sports or touring. Also, David's bikes are paid for by his company which offsets some of his running costs.

If I were in the market for a commuter, a decent 600 with weather protection and a great topbox would be my choice. Something boring and bland from the far east which will not cost a lot to run, won't set fire to your trousers but which will go on and on, day after day.

Oh and welcome to the madhouse that is EuroKClub!

Don't confuse who is paying with how much is being paid. My K1200S cost a fortune.  New radiator,  new ball joints,  new coils,  dodgy switch gear etc. all cost money, and big money at that.

Both of my K1300Ss had replacement radiators under warranty and the first one had a new final drive (peeling paint) also under warranty.  Other than that,  both did 18,000 miles a year with nothing more than fuel, tyres and scheduled servicing. And,  the servicing costs were no worse (or better) than most large capacity bikes.

My original K1300S (A 2013 bike) is still going strong, having been sold by me with 54k miles on it. In fact, I expect to see it on next year's Old Gits trip. As far as I know the only significant issue post my selling it has been the death of the rear shock. (Mark - please correct me if I'm wrong.)

So, while the costs of my bikes are paid for by my company,  the costs incurred have not been more because it was a K1300S.

[late to the party]

Thank you for your replies.

@richtea - it'll make a better commuter bike than our Japanese sports bikes maybe not in the reliability stakes but certainly in the comfort  department.  No pillions, wife and I will use it between us as we never both have to be in London at the same time.

@black-k1 - I didn't realise I could buy a BMW warranty for such an old bike albeit with a FSH.  I'll look into that, thank you.  As for mirrors, the detent mechanism that keeps the arms in the 'out' position appears to have failed/broken so both mirrors flop about anyway.  To be fixed hopefully.

@Phmode - thank you for the welcome. My wife considers anything less than 749cc to be for learners so that's not going to get off the ground although I fully understand what you say.  Maybe she'll change her mind when the K's broken down in the rain and biting wind.

[richtea]

> My wife considers anything less than 749cc to be for learners so that's not going to get off the ground although I fully understand what you say.  Maybe she'll change her mind when the K's broken down in the rain and biting wind.

Bravo to your wife! That's the spirit of adventure talking.
Both models have surprisingly good weather protection for a smallish fairing, IMHO. Or maybe its the speed blowing it away.

I'd agree a sports bike would be less pleasant, so I'll happily rescind my 'not so good for commuting' comment!

[fjtwelve]

If you are commuting get a remap like i did
If you are lucky like I have been you will get many trouble free miles
Two threads coincidences and the weather and k1200s will give you an insight into living with a k12 for the last 4 years and 70k

[late to the party]

Well, I've just spoken to my nearest BMW service department who has told me that the numerous previous owners have managed to have all the recall work done and that it's been regularly serviced by BMW so I suppose that is painting a slightly less gloomy picture in that the previous six owners have had it looked after.
I'll have another quick check over it tomorrow before paying for it - at least to make sure the 'leccy suspension works.

[richtea]

If the previous owner had a personal BMW warranty on it (one they paid for in person, not one given via a BMW dealership as part of a secondhand sale) that's worth having. The personal ones can be passed on to the next owner.
Peace of mind, and all that.

However, beyond 30k miles, it doesn't cover the ESA leccy suspenders.
A snippet from their warranty manual:
Suspension
Failure of the following parts: Telelever ball joints, telescopic forks (excluding pitting) and seals. Front and rear shock absorber units (up to 30,000 miles only).

[Phmode]

With 6 previous owners, I would be asking why none of them loved this particular bike enough to keep it and also therefore, why you will.

If you must buy the bike, to test the fumctionality of the ESA on a K12, follow the simple steps here...

https://eurokclub.bike/index.php?topic=1516.msg17164#msg17164

...and I suggest you print out the process and take it with you.

You can't test the ESA by flicking switches and thinking it's all OK! It's an open loop system remember!

You will feel and look like a monkey doing the tests but less of a monkey than finding out the ESA is buggered half way home.

[late to the party]

If the previous owner had a personal BMW warranty on it (one they paid for in person, not one given via a BMW dealership as part of a secondhand sale) that's worth having. The personal ones can be passed on to the next owner.
Peace of mind, and all that.

However, beyond 30k miles, it doesn't cover the ESA leccy suspenders.
A snippet from their warranty manual:
Suspension
Failure of the following parts: Telelever ball joints, telescopic forks (excluding pitting) and seals. Front and rear shock absorber units (up to 30,000 miles only).

Thank you - I've already looked into the BMW warranty so I'm ready to purchase it should there not already be one with it.  The cost seems a drop in the ocean compared to what even one failure could cost.

[late to the party]

With 6 previous owners, I would be asking why none of them loved this particular bike enough to keep it and also therefore, why you will.

If you must buy the bike, to test the fumctionality of the ESA on a K12, follow the simple steps here...

https://eurokclub.bike/index.php?topic=1516.msg17164#msg17164

...and I suggest you print out the process and take it with you.

You can't test the ESA by flicking switches and thinking it's all OK! It's an open loop system remember!

You will feel and look like a monkey doing the tests but less of a monkey than finding out the ESA is buggered half way home.

Thanks, I've already looked at that page previously and have screen shot it for using tomorrow.  I did notice that the rear suspension was very stiff, way stiffer than my sportsbikes, so either it's in sports two up mode or it's buggered.

[Phmode]

It may not be the shock.

One of the many 'recalls' involved the 'dogbone' linkage at the bottom of the shock. This is in fact a relay lever linkage between the chassis, the paralever swing arm and the bottom of the shock.

One seized on a guy in the outside lane of the M4 in rush hour and sent him tumbling. Bike and kit was totalled. Kit was good so he was OK'ish.

This was how BM found the problem...

They replaced the bike and kit and eventually did the decent thing and issued an upgrade to the linkage.

So, despite the part being upgraded and changed, there is still no maintenance for this wear part that is exposed to all the elephants can throw at it and pressure washing the bike doesn't help.

Tom will be along in a moment to explain how to check this for wear....