Author Topic: KTM's woes  (Read 466 times)

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Offline slparry

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Offline Phmode

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2024, 12:55:24 pm »
Yeah, but it is SELF administration. There is a difference...Matt will be along shortly to confuse us all with an 'explanation'  ;D

Offline Matt

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2024, 05:33:45 pm »
Yeah, but it is SELF administration. There is a difference...Matt will be along shortly to confuse us all with an 'explanation'  ;D

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Offline richtea

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2024, 05:42:55 pm »
Here's my explanation.

It's one or more of:
1) Matt didn't pay them enough for the bike
2) They don't make enough models to tempt the rest of us. It's a GT or a GT. Retro, cruiser, commuter anyone?
3) Their electronic reputation precedes them
4) You can't buy one without orange on it somewhere. (Matt will prove me wrong, but I can't remember one.)
5) Most riders don't need a bike that's 'Ready to race'

However, I want to like them. But 3 worries me.

Offline Matt

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2024, 05:53:16 pm »
According to statista, which is generally accurate, they sold almost as many bikes as BMW.
Bmw 150k: https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/motorcycles/bmw-motorrad/worldwide
Ktm 133k: https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/motorcycles/ktm-motorcycles/worldwide

That was just my attempt to cite anyway. Their sales stats are understood to be generally healthy, albeit with the slowdown post pandemic that everyone expected. So quality concerns seems to have as much impact as at BMW, ie not much.

In actuality it's the usual thing for big business: mismanagement. Venture caps going for multiple acqs, highly leveraged but messing it up so the inevitable reality hit before they sold it to some fool. Or something.

Do you want an orange KTM? Get a KTM. Do you want a red KTM? Get a GasGas. Oh you want a grey one? Husq.

It's a similar story to the garages that have been dying lately. Someone thinks one is good so if I buy another I'll realise amazing economies of scale yaay. Except then you have to manage two businesses. And even with stupid bike prices the money is made in maintaining. As I understand it.

I don't have the will to go find more useful stats sorry!
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Offline Phmode

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2024, 06:41:06 pm »
I think I liked Matt's explanation better  :azn:

Offline Matt

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2024, 07:25:09 pm »
...
4) You can't buy one without orange on it somewhere. (Matt will prove me wrong, but I can't remember one.)
...


Pow! 1290 Super Adventure S and S Evo, available with minimal black :P.

Double pow! A little 890 Adventure

My main requirement is to avoid orange wheels next time. Or maybe get aftermarket ones that are neither gloss orange nor gloss black.

Oh I deleted your point 5 but i'd say the two above aren't ready to race, just the big one has an amazing engine :D. The R is going to be the epitome of that Ready to Race guff. The GT is pretty hilarious, my limited experience of the SAS is closer to GS but with an engine that sounds and is awesome still.
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Claude.ai effort at an original joke - 2022
"Why don't mountains ever get lost? Because they always peak at the right moment!"
chatGPT 4o effort at an original joke - 2024

Offline runnerboy

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2024, 07:29:09 pm »
Yep, private equity has destroyed a lot of once great businesses. Finance bros doing their thing. Hope KTM make a plan and get back on their feet. In my case for the dirtbikes. Colour choices notwithstanding I like the bikes, not a fan of the other brands, might have to get over myself…

Offline black-k1

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2024, 07:30:36 am »
Here's my explanation.

It's one or more of:
1) Matt didn't pay them enough for the bike
2) They don't make enough models to tempt the rest of us. It's a GT or a GT. Retro, cruiser, commuter anyone?
3) Their electronic reputation precedes them
4) You can't buy one without orange on it somewhere. (Matt will prove me wrong, but I can't remember one.)
5) Most riders don't need a bike that's 'Ready to race'

However, I want to like them. But 3 worries me.

I agree with Rich (especially on number 1 :D ) as a view from "the punters perspective", although 3 is a bit much to be raised on a BMW forum and especially a K forum! Pretty much all makes and models have a weak point somewhere.

No one I know who has bought a KTM has seriously regretted it (unlike a few that have owned BMWs) however, I think points 2 and 4 have a bigger impact than might be accepted by the KTM marketing dept.  Many riders like to try different styles of bike and you can't do that while staying brand loyal to KTM. BMW and Triumph have understood this and even Ducati have a broader range than KTM for the rider of large capacity road bikes ie most of us!

Other manufacturers have previously released orange models and I think, anecdotally, every single one has undersold the same model offered in another colour. While I would probably still have ended up with my H2 SX, I think a blue or green SD1290GT would have made the decision even harder.

I really hope KTM come out the other side of this and continue to make fun and exciting bikes. The SD1290GT, and I assume now the SD1390GT are bikes completely in the spirit of the K1300S (traced back to the original R90S and R100RS), a bike that is sporty with excellent performance, but is comfortable and capable of taking a pillion and integral hard luggage. 

As for 5 Rich! Really? I for one want every bike I ride to be 'ready to race'! :D



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Offline richtea

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2024, 10:27:33 am »
As for 5 Rich! Really? I for one want every bike I ride to be 'ready to race'! :D

'Ready to ride under the radar'

'Ready to ride like an intermediate track day group'

'Ready to ride at an appropriate speed'.

That one's for IAM/RoSPA fans. Wake me up when we get there. (only teasing ::))

Oh, and I like an orange bike as much as any other ex-Laverda owner. But strangely none of mine were orange.

Offline Phmode

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2024, 12:06:51 pm »
Orange is a funny colour...for one thing it is (one of, probably) the only word in the English language for which there is no rhyming word!

I think it is fine for a refreshing morning glass of goodness but if the K only came in that horrid Orange colour then I would still be riding around on my Honda 1000  ;D

It is all very well having a corporate colour but when a company chooses such a divisive one then it speaks volumes about their arrogance and understanding of their potential demographic.

Offline Matt

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2024, 12:38:42 pm »
Yep visit a KTM dealer and sit there for a couple of hours. It's a different demo to what you'd see at BMW!
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Claude.ai effort at an original joke - 2022
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Offline alaskier

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2024, 01:09:42 pm »
Orange is a funny colour...for one thing it is (one of, probably) the only word in the English language for which there is no rhyming word!


Google disagrees with you Brian! There is sporange which is a technical word for a spore sac and there is also Mount Blorenge which is somewhere in Wales. Pedantry abounds now tha I have joined the serried ranks of the old age pensioners ;D

Offline richtea

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2024, 02:16:23 pm »

Offline Phmode

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Re: KTM's woes
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2024, 08:08:11 pm »
They are all made up words just to make someone famous for killing the uniquity of Orange  ;D