EuroKClub
General forum area => The Euro K Club Lounge => Topic started by: farmer on November 24, 2018, 05:15:58 pm
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hi all, very recently i had a most unfortunate run in with a lightweight helmet..... i only then realised how much i needed one...
the helmet in question was an airoh gp500 ...awesomely light but no internal sun visor.
since i have been periodically searching the web for something similar.... so far a few options have cropped up.
shark spartan carbon , very strong contender
airoh 701 pure carbon , similar in pretty much every way to the shark
avg k3/5 looks good but heavier than the previous pair
x-lite sorta ruled them out as i know nothing about them...(then i dont know alot about the others either but i have heard of them)
bell star late comers as i have just found out about their transitions visor
any one any experience of the candidates or any other likely suspects?
i'd like to know about ...noise levels, sun visor (er um) technology,weight...and of course price...price might be better in big letters.
any comments helpful or otherwise gratefully accepted.
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X-lite is (or was) Nolan’s premium brand.
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I think the SHARP rating gives some idea of how helmets perform in real world tests...
https://sharp.dft.gov.uk (https://sharp.dft.gov.uk)
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I wouldn't go by Sharp ratings alone, they are not the be all and end all, although they are helpful. Some people have questioned their testing methods.
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Being something of a Imelda Marcos of helmets I have an Airoh GP500 which is ultra light, lovely to wear but leaks like a sieve in heavy rain through the vents. I have an X Lite which is a lovely touring helmet, quiet, nice quality and has an internal sun visor which is great at this time of year. But like any woman with a love of favourite designer handbags , I always end up picking my Arai Chaser X which just fits like a glove on my Arai shaped head.
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I wouldn't go by Sharp ratings alone, they are not the be all and end all, although they are helpful. Some people have questioned their testing methods.
The SHARP testing methods were, as I understand it, questioned by Arai when their helmets didn't do very well!!!!
There is no other independent testing available over and above the various mandatory requirements so it's the best out there.
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Being something of a Imelda Marcos of helmets I have an Airoh GP500 which is ultra light, lovely to wear but leaks like a sieve in heavy rain through the vents. I have an X Lite which is a lovely touring helmet, quiet, nice quality and has an internal sun visor which is great at this time of year. But like any woman with a love of favourite designer handbags , I always end up picking my Arai Chaser X which just fits like a glove on my Arai shaped head.
Hello Kim nice to see you posting again, where ya bin ;D
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I wouldn't go by Sharp ratings alone, they are not the be all and end all, although they are helpful. Some people have questioned their testing methods.
The SHARP testing methods were, as I understand it, questioned by Arai when their helmets didn't do very well!!!!
There is no other independent testing available over and above the various mandatory requirements so it's the best out there.
Arais contention if I remember correctly was that a machine uniformly punching a helmet here and there in no way replicates real world random impacts.
Some bed time reading
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2013/04/08/motorcycle-helmet-standards-explained-dot-ece-22-05-snell/
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I wouldn't go by Sharp ratings alone, they are not the be all and end all, although they are helpful. Some people have questioned their testing methods.
The SHARP testing methods were, as I understand it, questioned by Arai when their helmets didn't do very well!!!!
There is no other independent testing available over and above the various mandatory requirements so it's the best out there.
That write-up isn't about SHARP (https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/)- they're DOT, ECE 22.05 & Snell, and some of those do tests involving sharp object impacts.
According to the 1990s COST (Cooperation in Scientific and Technical Research) 327 study (https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/sites/roadsafety/files/pdf/projects/cost_327.pdf), that isn't a very common occurence, hence why manufacturers (and users) doubt the usefulness of some of the tests.
SHARP claims to reproduce & measure more realistic situations, such as glancing blows.
There has been criticism of SHARP as well (here (https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/Documents/college-eps/metallurgy/perg/Documents/p161CriticalevaluationoftheSHARPmotorcyclehelmetratings.pdf) and here (https://www.motolegends.com/why-we-do-not-rate-the-sharp-helmet-test)for example). The main criticisms seem to be that the test head used is not a 'soft' head like a real human, and that the rotation effects aren't measured (SHARP says otherwise (https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/wp-content/themes/sharp2017/pdfs/Technical-response-to-the-unpublished-paper-by-NJ-Mills.pdf)).
However, for all that, as David says, no one has come up with anything better yet.
Some good advice (https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/frequently-asked-questions/) from SHARP themselves:
Remember, the most important aspect of a helmet is that it provides the right fit for you. It’s not necessarily the highest SHARP rated helmet that will be the best for you if it doesn’t fit correctly. When you are choosing your next helmet, try on as many as you can to find a selection that fit and are comfortable and then consider their SHARP safety rating to make the safest possible choice.
Lastly, for amusement since I found it whilst searching just now, here's my helmet (well, not mine) as tested by Guy Martin (https://www.dstoremanchester.co.uk/blog/guy_martin_crash-pistagp_ulstergp/) - it's bust bottom left. Good of him to test it for me.
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Hello Kim nice to see you posting again, where ya bin ;D
Thanks Rae, just mad busy quitting jobs, setting up a new business,this and that. Hopefully able to concentrate on the important things like two wheels again now.
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I wouldn't go by Sharp ratings alone, they are not the be all and end all, although they are helpful. Some people have questioned their testing methods.
The SHARP testing methods were, as I understand it, questioned by Arai when their helmets didn't do very well!!!!
There is no other independent testing available over and above the various mandatory requirements so it's the best out there.
That write-up isn't about SHARP (https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/)- they're DOT, ECE 22.05 & Snell, and some of those do tests involving sharp object impacts.
According to the 1990s COST (Cooperation in Scientific and Technical Research) 327 study (https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/sites/roadsafety/files/pdf/projects/cost_327.pdf), that isn't a very common occurence, hence why manufacturers (and users) doubt the usefulness of some of the tests.
SHARP claims to reproduce & measure more realistic situations, such as glancing blows.
There has been criticism of SHARP as well (here (https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/Documents/college-eps/metallurgy/perg/Documents/p161CriticalevaluationoftheSHARPmotorcyclehelmetratings.pdf) and here (https://www.motolegends.com/why-we-do-not-rate-the-sharp-helmet-test)for example). The main criticisms seem to be that the test head used is not a 'soft' head like a real human, and that the rotation effects aren't measured (SHARP says otherwise (https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/wp-content/themes/sharp2017/pdfs/Technical-response-to-the-unpublished-paper-by-NJ-Mills.pdf)).
However, for all that, as David says, no one has come up with anything better yet.
Some good advice (https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/frequently-asked-questions/) from SHARP themselves:
Remember, the most important aspect of a helmet is that it provides the right fit for you. It’s not necessarily the highest SHARP rated helmet that will be the best for you if it doesn’t fit correctly. When you are choosing your next helmet, try on as many as you can to find a selection that fit and are comfortable and then consider their SHARP safety rating to make the safest possible choice.
Lastly, for amusement since I found it whilst searching just now, here's my helmet (well, not mine) as tested by Guy Martin (https://www.dstoremanchester.co.uk/blog/guy_martin_crash-pistagp_ulstergp/) - it's bust bottom left. Good of him to test it for me.
And this is always the problem when SHARP are mentioned. I have no idea if N. J. Mills in Birmingham has any "axe to grind" but the fact that Moto Legends, who make a profit from selling helmets and, I assume, make more profit from selling an expensive helmet, highlight that it was a cheap helmet that initially did well in the tests, suggests that their motives may be in question.
All helmets have to pass the pretty basic minimum requirements to get certification in the first place. Beyond that, the ONLY scientifically repeatable testing that enables differentiation between helmets is done by SHARP. It's not perfect and there are always ways that it can be improved but there is NO OTHER alternatives beyond "wet finger in the air" that a punter can use to suggest which helmet is better at doing the job that, very often, a large amount of money is paying for.
If I have a choice of two helmets that fit equally well, and have all the features I require, then I have no doubt, the number of SHARP stars will be a significant deciding factor.
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My Schuberth C3 is/was the quietest helmet available when I bought it. It is also very light (compared to what I have no idea ::) ) and it has an easily operated, replaceable, internal sun-visor; when I say easily operated, I mean you can actually deploy it and retract it with a mere shrug of a shoulder and a twist of the head, no hands needed, as the lever is on the left side of the bottom rim, unlike some others where it is on the top of the helmet.
Mine has started to lose some of it's resilience in the internal padding and doesn't fit as snugly as it used to but back in the day it was cosy and warm at all times. The vents are good, it has a 'winter/summer' setting on the padding above the head and apart from the odd dribble of rain down the inside of the visor when used in the 'city' mode with the visor cracked open, it stays dry inside.
Not the cheapest but an excellent mid-range priced helmet with all the features including Pin-Lock visor.
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thanks all, the c3 was a strong runner when i bought my last helmet, i went for a roof boxer instead which i am mostly happy with. there are draw backs though, fitting a scala g9 was a bit of a pain and the best/only position means i can only secure one of the two poppers securing the front of the helmet, it is a heavy helmet - though its only bothered me since i started "weight lifting" carbon helmets, and my biggest thing is the tinted visor, ok on an average sunny day and not to bad in the dark but nowhere near dark enough in a strong sun.
i would like a nice light quiet helmet for long runs ... the boxer is perfectly acceptable for short bursts.
good to hear the gp500 leaks a bit before i go mad and splash the cash!! wonder if the 701 is the same.
nobody experienced the transition visor yet ...sounds good but is it dark enough?
questions questions....
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My C3 visor is dark enough but I do have photochromic lenses in my spec and a 'sun visor' strip along the top of the outer visor so I can totally block low sun if I need to.
I have the Sena 20S fitted (glued) to the side of the C3 with no faceplate opening or sun visor mechanism problems.
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c3 looks a great helmet but i want lightness...flip ups seem to need an extra bit of weight for the ,,, well flip up.
does your visor darken a lot as thats what intrested me in the bell helmet range... maybe a drop down would be best but the lightweight bell helmets don't have that option.
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I must confess I love my Schuberth C3 Pro. I know I have a Schuberth shaped head and have had a C2, C3, C3 Pro and now another C3 Pro. I do try on other helmets at replacement time but I've not yet found anything that fits as well, and offers a decent compromise of lightness, ease of use and build quality. I also like my C3 Pro as it's pretty quiet, a feature that often gets overlooked. As an aging motorcyclist with failing hearing as a direct result of wearing noisy helmets without ear protection, I think helmet noise (or lack of) is second only to fit when it comes to importance.
The sun visor is excellent and easy to use and my Scala G9X intercom is stuck to the side of the helmet yet does not interfere with the flip front or the sun visor mechanism.
One of the things I like about the Schuberth is that it doesn't "give" much. I've had helmets before that fit well when new but 6 months later, the padding has "relaxed" and the helmet is loose. My Schuberths have all still been snug fits after 3 years 50,000+ miles of use.
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I've yet to find better lids than Schuberth flip front helmets.
We used to get a free Schuberth helmet on every Schuberth Nurburgring course and I've stuck with them ever since. Must say that my favourite was the pre Pin-Lock helmets.
Now living with the C3 Pro. Unfortunately one of the problems is water running down the inside of the visor if you dare to crack it open in the rain. Was told that this problem had been sorted on the Pro but I don't reckon it has.
Of course every helmet behaves differently on different bikes and on the K1300S the screen deflects the air flow straight onto the visor.
I personally think that the sun visor is too dark especially when riding in and out of the shade from trees.
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It's a tandard tinted visor, it's the spectacles that are photochromic and they go really black in the sun.
According to this...
https://billyscrashhelmets.co.uk/about-photochromic-visors/
...the only helmets with photochromic visors are Bell, Shoei and Lazer.
I'd check out the actual weight of the C3 and compare it to the opposition.
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Arg you've reminded me I really should sort a new lid out. All... 3 of my lids are now over 5 years old!
Last time I looked (online) the Schuberth C3 Pro or maybe the new C4 looked pretty great. I just need to stop buying... exotic cattle and then I can afford one!
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What the hell has 'afford' got to do with it Matt. I can't afford sod all but it doesn't stop me buying it and like me (on at least one count, to protect both of our reputations) you have no moaning accountant other half going throuh your bills and your Amazon account.
Just do it... ::)
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...and to save the hassle Ijust goggled the C3 and here is the answer on its weight...
https://billyscrashhelmets.co.uk/schuberth-c3-helmet-review/
...as always, depending on shell size :D
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I think you may struggle to get a C3 now. The C3 Pro replaced it some time ago.
As regards weight, the C3 Pro is slightly lighter than the C3 at 1570g https://billyscrashhelmets.co.uk/schuberth-c3-pro-crash-helmet-review-c3pro-woman/ (I assume for the smaller shell size) but the C4 is in the same ball park as the C3
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If weight is the issue the HJC RPHA Max evo is 1550 grams. I went for this after my trashing the Shoei Neotec and am happy with it.
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I don't have a big nose, but find many helmets dont have enough nose clearance and move slightly at higher speeds to annoyingly touch my nose. This despite being a nice snug fit. Am I alone in this?
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I don't have a big nose, but find many helmets dont have enough nose clearance and move slightly at higher speeds to annoyingly touch my nose. This despite being a nice snug fit. Am I alone in this?
You must have a big hooter
I have approx 3/4 of an inch clearance on my C3 Pro
Steve
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That's one reason I gave up on Arai. Whereas my AGV has a vast expanse of hooter space.
It's also cooler, lighter, quieter and generally rather better than I expected.
But its not what you might call a touring helmet - no flip, no sun visor, only 3 visor positions. I love it.
The trouble with helmet buying is its a leap in the dark (and expensive), which can't be undone.
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c3 looks a great helmet but i want lightness...flip ups seem to need an extra bit of weight for the ,,, well flip up.
does your visor darken a lot as thats what intrested me in the bell helmet range... maybe a drop down would be best but the lightweight bell helmets don't have that option.
Never trust a bike helmet with two front mudguards visors.
Ref: https://eurokclub.bike/index.php?topic=3301.msg40893#msg40893
Go carbon, wear these 8) and have less complexity. Lightweight is nice.
(am now in brace position, ready for a shooting down of such a heretical view)
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The HJC RPHA 90 weighs in at 1470 grams that's about the lightest flip front on the market.
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I've decided that my head weighs more than that so I don't notice it :D
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1470gm is v good, Rae, I agree.
Mine:
- claimed: 1280 gm
- actual: with my Med/Large shell 1504 gm (that's shell size 3 of 4 choices)
I'm guessing the 1280 gm is the smallest shell available.
Lies, damned lies and helmet stats!
However, for all that, it certainly feels lighter than my previous one - Arai RX7 - and more comfy.
Here's something halfway between our helmets - carbon + flip:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/H_FW1AwGy2M?rel=0
Oh, and a bloody sun visor too. Damn.
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decisions, decisions...
sorta off the airoh thanks to eyore ....dont want a wet head thankyou v much.
reading up on bell transition visor... not recommended for the rain.... what !!! this is ireland... and scotland can give us a run for our money with unexpected showers.... no wonder theres not much experience of them here!!
shark spartan carbon still a runner but now i've been (much) reminded of the c3.
been looking at helmets around the 12/1300 g area - at least below 1500 g but as richt suggests weight may go well up with a larger size.
perhaps i need a set of scales to weight each helmet.
i don't know what to do..perhaps the roof will do a while yet.... but now i know it's a heavy old bugger.
new resolution...stop going into motorbike shops!!!!
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Go to a bike show if you can:
1. You can try them all on until your ears are red raw - both the designs and the various sizes
2. You can often get a real bargain if its a decent sized show.
Maybe this one if you can hang until March:
https://www.irishmotorbikeshow.com/online-ticket-sales/
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Pity you can't try them on by going for a ride with the helmet on without actually buying it first.
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bike show is probably the best idea..... but i need one now!!!!...well not really.
also irish bike shows are just too near, good weekend away would be fine after feeding animals all winter....
i'll try to cool my jets, maybe the government will help me go on a work avoidance scheme.
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It's of absolutely no help to your good self, but one of the best places in mainland UK to try almost every helmet in every size and variation (but without being able to ride off in one on test ::) ) is Helmet City. Various outlets and most major shows and race meetings. Details on their website...
http://www.helmetcity.co.uk/pages/contact-us.html
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Worth a look regarding protective gear incl helmets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=lwwlvi1hf10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=lwwlvi1hf10)
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Quite entertaining, as are his other vids. For some reason he doesn't mention SHARP, but I guess it's aimed more at those across the pond.
In his helmet reviews he does often mention SHARP though.
He also takes a golf club to chin guards in some of his tests. That bit of test isn't scientific, but it's still quite interesting. He does do other more measured impact testing, though.