Author Topic: early days  (Read 4776 times)

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Offline marmike

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early days
« on: December 17, 2017, 11:54:43 am »
 :) Hi
I registered here to learn about the K series bikes as I am considering one for my next bike. It won't be for a while as I am only half-way thru paying for my 06 Daytona 955i. ( which i am v pleased withbtw)

It has come to my attention that as I am staring down the barrel of breaching 64 years this month, I only have a limited number of finance agreements left before my income fizzles out and I am left in the warm embrace of the state pension triple-lock.

Therefore I need to plan my last adventures in the world of cool bike ownership carefully and a K12 or 13 is at the top of my list if the daytona doesn't get a vice like grip on me over the next 15 months.

So hello to all, I am looking forward to drinking at the fount of K wisdom.

Offline Costas

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Re: early days
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2017, 12:00:05 pm »
What an introduction, welcome to what is by definition the sourse of K bikes info fountain.
Embrace the wind.

Offline raesewell

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Re: early days
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 12:04:00 pm »
If it is an S you are after then a 13 is better than the 12 and a BMW warranty is a must. Don't run these bikes without the BMW warranty.

Offline Phmode

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Re: early day
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2017, 01:54:00 pm »
Hi Mike and welcome to the madhouse that is EuroKClub!

Nice to have a youngster join the throng; many of us will never see retirement age again and lots won't ever see 70 either...

I wouldn't rely on the triple lock for your financial stability and if that is the only pension you have then you either need to be a more than competent mechanic, have great friends who are or budget for the extended BMW warranty as Rae so rightly says; a shiny beer token a day will see you covered by a BMW almost-as-good-as-new bike warranty.

The K13 has some very expensive parts which can and do fail, some by design (radiator clogs on the outside, rots and cost £500 for a new one and no-one, but no-one makes them but BMW, switch gear, paint finish etc. etc.), some by over-complexity (ESA, clutch etc. etc.). Note the etc. etc. in there...

However, many, perhaps even most, run reliably for almost their entire life.

As a one-time K12S owner and now with a K13S, my advice would be not to buy a 12. Don't be tempted by price. Most dealers won't touch them because of their fragility and quirks, most of which were ironed out in the 13, especially the later ones. The 13 is a MUCH better bike, depending on your use, riding style and experience and the price on 13's is coming down all the time.

Buy the latest, lowest mileage K13S you can afford and make sure you get one with all the toys you will want. Adding things on later is either impossible or very expensive and don't touch one without a full BMW service history; simple things like a previous owner skimping on engine oil at service time and using a top-spec Castrol oil (rather than the very expensive BMW supplied oil) which would be fine in your Triumph, can result in many clutch problems and you will inherit the heap of bills, not them! There is a reason the BMW oil is expensive. Hydraulic fluid is also specific and crucial on these bikes as is using a vacuum system when refilling the coolant system.

Test ride 3 or four before you buy and make sure things like the seat and wind protection is to your liking. Most owners never find the perfect screen and all our bums have their own preferences.

Expect to be totally hooked! The warp factor motor will pull from 30 to 170 in top, the quick shifter is, to some, pointless on the road, but is completely addictive and makes riding smoother and safer imo. I have done way too many 500 mile days and apart from arthritic knees, every part of me still has a grin at the end of them.

Expect to get 45-50 to the gallon, 7,000 miles out of a set of e.g. Michelin PR3/4 tyres and both of those figures without hanging around.

I couldn't ride either bike fast at night on stock headlights and find HID's make life better, LED's are available and both are a doddle to fit.

First gear engagement is worse than a friend's ancient Fordson Major and is a feature, don't be put off by it, they really do all do that. Every other gear should snick in perfectly even clutchless going up and certainly is virtually unnoticeable with the quick shifter. David (black-k1, a K13S owner and ex-K12S owner) is even riding clutchless going down with some good results. The clutch is a 'damp' system where the plates get oiled every time the lever is pulled and with the shifter that happens less and less, so the wise hold their lever in at lights etc. to help the lube and allay any worries.

Good luck with the future and be sure to let us know the outcome.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 02:31:29 pm by Phmode »

Offline TomL

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Re: early days
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 02:10:51 pm »
Well written Brian.  :)
As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

Offline marmike

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Re: early days
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2017, 03:29:59 pm »

Many thanks for your welcome, and even more thanks to PHmode - this is the good stuff!
Visor Down (yeah I know) draws the conclusion from its owner review survey that the 12 is a safer bet than the 13 but that conflicts with snippets I have picked up from around the web.

I am drawn to the 13 as I will only buy one (If I love it I'll keep it. if I dont I wont be trying another) finances will have to improve a little first tho and my Tiumph keeps going down in value instead of up. Inevitably I will be down near the bottom of the market so I will be treading carefully. (I have owned landrovers)

I am resigned to improving my spannering skills as required, but one of the reasons I am considering the K now is that I am planning to earn for between another 5 -10 years so I need to front-load my expensive tastes.

I have a suspicion - pls correct me if I am out of line here - that BMW bikes are produced with the same kind of approach as the cars. The finest components + the most competitive spec = the most assiduous maintenance. This is why I no longer own an ageing BMW car. ( I have reached my end game with cars and it is a ageing subaru legacy)

So why  K 1300 r ? The R is what I am attracted to, for its thrust, its looks and the fact it will fit through my passageway door

I like oddball bikes viz...... trx 850, aprilia falco+caponord, guzzi griso,suzuki GT 750, GS 750, and current barn-find RF900.

So thats me. I am now in reading mode. (Apart from when wittering on about something) Thanks again.

Offline Dusty

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Re: early days
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2017, 03:45:36 pm »
Welcome aboard, Marmike; looks like we’re either going to love you or hate you!
Interesting resumé with some similarities to my own; Sprint RS 955i, Falco, Land Rover also among my previous toys. Brian has summed it up pretty well as usual. It’s either a full warranty or reasonable competence at DIY maintenance. The Triumph is much easier and cheaper to maintain in my experience and lots of fun but the K is faster and more quirky with the shaft drive being, in my opinion, a significant advantage. I came close to trading mine in recently for an Explorer, but despite the good deal on offer, I couldn’t bring myself to part with my K after 7 years of ownership. It does everything I want and if there was a K1300R Sport available, I’d have one.
Good luck with your decision making.

Offline black-k1

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Re: early days
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2017, 05:20:35 pm »

Many thanks for your welcome, and even more thanks to PHmode - this is the good stuff!
Visor Down (yeah I know) draws the conclusion from its owner review survey that the 12 is a safer bet than the 13 but that conflicts with snippets I have picked up from around the web.

I am drawn to the 13 as I will only buy one (If I love it I'll keep it. if I dont I wont be trying another) finances will have to improve a little first tho and my Tiumph keeps going down in value instead of up. Inevitably I will be down near the bottom of the market so I will be treading carefully. (I have owned landrovers)

I am resigned to improving my spannering skills as required, but one of the reasons I am considering the K now is that I am planning to earn for between another 5 -10 years so I need to front-load my expensive tastes.

I have a suspicion - pls correct me if I am out of line here - that BMW bikes are produced with the same kind of approach as the cars. The finest components + the most competitive spec = the most assiduous maintenance. This is why I no longer own an ageing BMW car. ( I have reached my end game with cars and it is a ageing subaru legacy)

So why  K 1300 r ? The R is what I am attracted to, for its thrust, its looks and the fact it will fit through my passageway door

I like oddball bikes viz...... trx 850, aprilia falco+caponord, guzzi griso,suzuki GT 750, GS 750, and current barn-find RF900.

So thats me. I am now in reading mode. (Apart from when wittering on about something) Thanks again.

Welcome.

There are a good few on here that have owned both a 1200 and a 1300. I don't think there is one who would recommend the 1200 over the 1300 either when looking at rider experience or reliability.  Any cost saving in purchase price of a 1200 is very likely to be lost in higher maintenance bills.

Don't be fooled by any BMW marketting "crap". They do make great bikes but using poor quality components.  The K1200 and K1300 bikes all suffer from component failure at a much higher rate then would considered reasonable in a "budget" bike, never mind something sold as a "premium product".
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Offline Phmode

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Re: early days
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2017, 05:40:03 pm »
Mike. There are some hard-ridden K12's about, Martin (fjtwelve) just passed 70 odd thousand on his K12S which was a pig when I rode it and compared it to my K12S. He spent money on a remap and it is still going strong.

The 12 has dire fuelling, the early ones (mine was a 2004 press fleet bike) were unrideable. Later ones had a new airbox and idle control valve (£500 to do it now) and an ECU update which sort of fixed it...

The 12's early electric servo brakes were awesome, but with no feel; pull the lever and it was like hitting a truck! They suffered from brush failure and were difficult to repair. Even the later 13's are not without their difficulties in regard to ABS.

The 12 as well as early 13's suffered from cam chain rattle on start up caused by a flawed tensioner design. Hot starts (especially after standing on the sidestand) could result in the chain jumping the crank sprocket which allowed the pistons to say 'Hello!' (followed immediately by 'Goodbye!') to the valves...a new tensioner with an oil reservoir and a plastic doohicky round the crank sprocket solved that one.

12's were prone to rear shock linkage failure which tends to test out the worthiness or otherwise of all your safety-related clothing...

A 12 is just as fast as a 13, maybe faster by 1-2 mph and in the real world there is little difference in engine performance.

As I said, the fuelling on the 12was a nightmare. Ricardo Engineering sorted the head with a new design for the 13 and the fuelling is more or less spot on; I still don't think it is a patch on the seamless fuelling on my old 1987 Honda 1000!

The chassis is a totally different matter, the 13 has one, the 12 has a rather thick plank of wood! You can choose which side of the white line you want to put the contact patch on a 13, on a hard-ridden 12 you are lucky if you can choose which side of the white line you put the bike...

The 13 has much better ESA with greater differentiation between the various settings.

The 12 suffered from sticking throttles - no adjustment, no cure apart from new throttle bodies - £1,000 to you sir...

Lots of 12 owners can't understand the attraction of a relatively more expensive 13. No 13 owner that I have ever met would go back to a 12...

The 12 was better in some ways. It didn't suffer from switch failure. OK, the 12 was better in one way...

Go here...

http://eurokclub.bike/index.php?topic=2648.msg32379#msg32379

...and read the list of things replaced on Steve's K12. He is now a salesman for BMW Motorrad but look at what has gone wrong down the years.

You are way out of line in your thinking about BMW bikes as compared to cars, not that I have ever owned a BM car.

I can list on the inside of a gnat's ear lid the top notch components they used in their bikes. It would take an hour to write the list of rubbish components and designs...

Front end Ball Joints - made of cheese...
Switchgear - cheap as chips and last about as long...
Radiator spray guard - covers the bit of the rad that never gets dirty...
Front mudguard - covers the bit of the rad covered by the rad spray guard, chucks tons of rubbish at the unprotected lower corners of the rad which clogs causing overheating and rotting of the alloy core...
Clutch design - done by a seven year old; rone to running dry, wearing, squealing and juddering...
Side stand - too short to stand the bike on for most people's liking...
Cheap rivnuts in the frame which come loose and can strip especially when the bolts have the specially made BMW loctite (read Araldite) applied...
Engine vibrations - another 7 year old, especially bad at motorway/Autobahn cruising speed assuming you stick to the limits...
Paint finish - bubbles and peels on rear swing arm/final drive unit and clutch/engine but also wheel carrier (forks to you and me)...
Fuel level sensor - buy a notched stick and keep it taped to the tank...
Headlamp unit - only a four year old would design something where you can only adjust both at once and for me, neither is in the right place on the road...
Hot-starts - lots of bikes suffer from an inability to start when hot; a new section of loom resolved that one but it is expensive...
Battery - life for some bikes is abysmal...
Fuel tank - take off made of plastic which fails, a recall for that one...
Dealers - some good, some less so; the best one I found was in Athens...
Front ESA unit - loom prone to failing; they sell a repair kit which most dealers have never heard of...
Some 'sealed-for-life' things like the rear drive and the clutch hydraulics shouldn't be...

However, it is, to my mind and most in here (who of course are all biased and bonkers) the best bang for your buck sports tourer ever made. Discuss...

Simples!

Offline marmike

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Re: early days
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 05:53:07 pm »
Welcome aboard, Marmike; looks like we’re either going to love you or hate you!
Interesting resumé with some similarities to my own; Sprint RS 955i, Falco, Land Rover also among my previous toys. Brian has summed it up pretty well as usual. It’s either a full warranty or reasonable competence at DIY maintenance. The Triumph is much easier and cheaper to maintain in my experience and lots of fun but the K is faster and more quirky with the shaft drive being, in my opinion, a significant advantage. I came close to trading mine in recently for an Explorer, but despite the good deal on offer, I couldn’t bring myself to part with my K after 7 years of ownership. It does everything I want and if there was a K1300R Sport available, I’d have one.
Good luck with your decision making.

Thanks Dusty, actually the forum name is aspirational. I would dearly love not to give a monkey's what people think of me, but i do - up to a point anyway.
The daytona has already given me some fun recently with the reg rec blowing the main fuse instead of frying. Took a while to realise this is presumably a get you home design as the bike still runs until the battery drains. ( was about to tackle the stator till I did a belt and braces test of the fuses)
Explorer physically too big for me and anyway the capo - lovely bike though it is - taught me I prefer long low bikes (and cars) rather than top heavy ones.
To me quirky usually means involving, which is a good thing.
Shaft drive is one thing I will be checking out v closely. I had to get rid of my beautiful griso as I couldn't stop the rear wheel kicking out sideways on bumpy corners. Hagons did me a great deal on a new shock as it was their first for that bike but it made little difference. This is only a guess but I think the problem was unsprung mass. The drive shaft on the modern Guzzis is massive compared to their classic models and all the anti-jacking mech can't have helped.
I know you can have good shaft drives as I have had a test on a vfr1200 which was so good you couldn't tell it wasnt a chain. ( great bike in some ways - couldn't stand the row it made and the weight was a touch too much. How can aprilia make heavenly music with a v4 and honda come out with a tube train?)
still tempted by another falco!

Offline marmike

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Re: early days
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2017, 06:05:15 pm »


Welcome.

There are a good few on here that have owned both a 1200 and a 1300. I don't think there is one who would recommend the 1200 over the 1300 either when looking at rider experience or reliability.  Any cost saving in purchase price of a 1200 is very likely to be lost in higher maintenance bills.

Don't be fooled by any BMW marketting "crap". They do make great bikes but using poor quality components.  The K1200 and K1300 bikes all suffer from component failure at a much higher rate then would considered reasonable in a "budget" bike, never mind something sold as a "premium product".

Many thanks Black-K1 good advice I reckon

Offline marmike

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Re: early days
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 06:35:45 pm »
Ok this lot is fairly daunting!
But knowledge is power and I'm feeling my stoic muscles twitching in anticipation.

PHmode I'm very grateful for this info its what I love about forums (I restrict myself to two inc this one now) I am screen grabbing this post to file away for the time being and inwardly digest.




You are way out of line in your thinking about BMW bikes as compared to cars, not that I have ever owned a BM car.

I have owned a BMW 525 tds which was the quietest car for cabin noise i ever had and went well av 27mpg good brakes etc but it cost me £700 every service and usually £700 in between ( the little darling service indicator light was a real treat)
I had to draw the conclusion the maintenance "inspections" where designed-in as a bonus revenue stream at the outset.

However in my limited experience of internet forums i have learnt the hard way never to diss the subject of the forum until you have been a member for at least 9 years, or owned one, so I'm giving the K the benefit of the doubt for now. Anyway there isnt one bike I regret owning.
 Every bike has its little quirks lol seems the Ks have a few that are genuinely character-building. However I have dealt with total darkness of aprilia's allegro/teasmaid 'electronic' dash design, not to mention slow punctures caused not by the tyre I've just thrown away but the fact the previous owner's puncture-mouse has eaten through the anodised rim of their wonderful tubeless spoked wheel and made it porous. The trx could have done with some suspension and its 5 (count em) valve head drank nearly 6 ltres of oil on a 10 day tour of the picos ( and we took the ferry to Bilbao!!) 
Dont get me wrong until I actually retire I prefer to spend my time riding rather than building my character in the shed. I may yet buy a Honda. at least I know how to swap a reg/rec.





Offline richtea

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Re: early days
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2017, 06:38:35 pm »
Welcome Marmike.

Random thought dump from me:

Falco: loved mine, just ran out of leg space as I got less flexible. I'd say the K is less flickable (extra weight), but a heck of a lot of power, and still stable.

K shaft: I can't tell it's a shaft, but then again I may be insensitive. I couldn't tell the difference between the ESA suspension settings for 3 months.

Long and low = K with low seat option.

Lower end of the range/money: my experience (and it is just one bike) is that it hasn't degraded with mileage, so I'm not sure going for say a 10k mile model over a 20k one matters that much (whereas I think it would for a Falco, IMHO). Miy K has done 36k now, and seems about the same to me as when I got it at 8k. A little rust/bubbling is starting to show here and there, but that's probably down to my lack of care. And I have a feeling my radiator is getting warmer quicker than normal = failure soon methinks, but apart from that potential hiccup, it's been the most reliable bike I've had. Other owners have been less lucky, though.

I guess the only other advice not given is that the ESA suspension falls outside the BMW warranty at 30k miles, so maybe consider not buying too far into the 20k+. Or rather - work it the other way round if money is tight- if it's over 30k make sure the price is reflecting that extra risk.

16k and full BMW serivce history:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710200500216?model=K1300R&sort=price-asc&radius=1501&advertising-location=at_bikes&make=BMW&postcode=cv472ar&page=1&advert-type=promoted

There's probably £500 off if you ring him at the end of the month (Dec, Jan or Feb!).

Offline marmike

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Re: early days
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2017, 09:02:37 pm »

Hi Richtea

Thanks for the insights, esp warranty. these warranties sound like a good insurance (depending on cost obvs) am I right in assuming you can only get them by buying the bike from a BM dealer?

Re Falco: I still think it is the best looking bike I have owned and the yellow one I had was fault-free while I had it. I have owned 4 aprilias - falco, capo and 2 pegasos

and each one was better finished, with higher quality materials and in better condition after 10 years of use than the Kawasaki er6f I bought new. Unfortunately the capo was the one with all the usual ape faults. couldn't fault the finish tho

seen the one on Auto trader and if I was in a position to buy i would be on that for a ride tomorrow - liking the black very much.


Offline Phmode

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Re: early days
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2017, 12:13:09 am »
Mike, the warranty is available on any BMW up to certain (high) mileages. If you buy from a main dealer you get a 2 (?) year warranty anyway and you can choose to continue the warranty at the end of the first period. However, wherever you buy your bike, you can buy the warranty. Approx. £1 per day. Go here...

https://www.motorrad-warranty.co.uk/Login/Index

...do the stuff and get a quote. You will need a specific reg. no. to get a quote but budget for about £360 a year. No other marque offers this sort of deal afaik!

I have no idea why Honda can't find someone to design and build reliable (as in reliable to NOT fail) regulator/rectifier units. The one on my ‘87 CBR1000 F-H went after about 18 months...and that was wayyyyy back when.

PS No one here cares if you slag off the marque as long as you have/had one and your comments are based on fact, not heresay. We have all had our little tantrums apart from Uncle Bob who will be along any time soon to tell you his was a splendid machine which never let him down or cost him a penny; all true too!

PPS However, you will get banned for no apparent reason and without warning. So, you have been warned... ;D

PPPS I think I might be banned at the moment..... ::)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 01:18:39 am by Phmode »