H2 SX SE test ride. A different perspective?

[richtea]

Why do we have such "monsters"? Why not all ride a bike with 500cc/50bhp?

It's a very good point.

I was pretty happy with my last two bikes at 85 BHP & 120BHP, but my little knees were no longer happy.
My size and slightly creaky joints dictate a bike larger than 500cc (if I make a K1300S look like a 125, then 500cc is my Kreidler*)

If I was given carte blanche (or even carrots blanched) on a new sports tourer design I'd go for 40Kg less weight, but keep the same size & not increase the power.

However, for all that, it would be amusing to see if Hilltop makes a difference.


*Lovely Kreidler:

[Belco100]

Hilltop are a Marmite company, you love them or hate them. Most people who go there love them, but they have some quirks - like no-one really knows what they do? It's not a full re-map like say a PowerComander. I was told that they dump a bit of extra software in the "BIOS" of the ECU that is read as it boots up before it gets to the BMW maps and software, which is why they say it is not detectable and doesn't get overwritten by BMW software updates. 

I used Hilltop on my last K16GT as I found Euro4 had toned down the power compared to my previous Euro3 models. Much better roll on and stronger throttle response after. A little more power top-end, but its the roll-on etc you really notice, a bit like a BoosterPlug on an early K bike.

My Euro5 1250GS is going there in a few weeks so I hope to get the same sort of response and improvements.

[Phmode]

...and, I don't think Hilltop have ever claimed their snake oil remedy is 'undetectable'. As you say, they stuff a little wonder fluid in the BIOS (he says as though he knows of what he speaks  ) from where it becomes untouchable by the mothership unless a full reload is performed and I'm not even sure they can do that down the phone line.

Someone who knew what they were doing (i.e. NOT a BMW technician nor an insurance assessor) could find it easily I'm sure.

But, the overwhelming evidence is that the snake oil works and I would love a little for my Honda.

[Matt]

Well. I got up this morning.

After breakfast I decided I'd go and just look, you know, just look at the H2 SX SE and see if I like it in the flesh. It may be a bit marmite I thought.

So I got there and realised there's now the H2 SX SE+, which brings the magic suspension that David was mentioning. Anyway, my looking went well for about 3 seconds, whereupon the garage fella came to move the bike for a demo ride. Then he says there's one next to it. And then I accidentally asked "ah is that a demo too?"
"yeah sure, pop into the showroom and I'll be back once I've sorted this fella." So off I pop, trying to remember what my original intent had been.

I was almost saved when he asked for licence and NI stuff, but thanks to being #digital #somebodyhelpme I had it hidden in my emails somewhere.



Ten minutes later I'm off on the A339 towards Basingrad. What David and his K1300 cohort on their trip said is true. It immediately felt like what I'd hope a successor to the K1300S would feel like. I'm likely too hungry to do it justice with my words. I was out an hour and a half before ambling back to park it next to mine.

My main thoughts at various stages of the ride were:

1. It's too easy! Too much power. Not in a scary way, see point 2. But just so easy and uneventful to do everything. Also see point 3 which maybe informs this one. I only heard the flutter of the supercharger dump valvey thing once or twice in 1st gear, as every other gear you're way too fast. I'm sure with ownership i'd learn more but still. 200ps or wtf!
2. It's so friendly, accessible.
3. It's too quiet. This had a Yoshi can on but the big collector/cat thing at the bottom of the header pipe stuff negated it when wearing earplugs.
4. Yeah, ergo is a lot like the K, maybe felt slightly nicer. I dunno.
5. Magic Suspension was amazing, but then the bike I tried after this highlighted that.
6. It felt just easier to turn in, maybe "more modern" or just say 15-20% easier to do things with.
7. I can see why it's 21k.. maybe.



So I get back and say "it's just too easy, too much easy power... what else do Kawasaki make? Maybe slightly lighter and more insane but a bit less power..." and ended up sitting on what I think is a Z1000SX.



This is a bit easier to sum up, the suspension was more wallowing, the dash was basic, it hadn't got a quickshifter. It was a sit-up thing, and I suppose the Kwak version of the GSXS1000S or whatever my mate has. Although the Suzuki felt a lot firmer. Anyway, it had about 140hp and was fast and fine. Retail is somewhere near 11k. On return my feedback was "agh! it isn't special enough!"

Both bikes they'll throw in the luggage lark.

Then their nice guy talked to be about PCP for a while. Then I ran away and realised that throwing 10k cash down and renting a bike for 3k over 3 years and then having nothing 'guaranteed' at the end of it is probably only a good idea if I'm actually in love with the thing.

Getting back on my bike was actually nice. I remember after trying the K when I had my F800 the ride home felt horrendous. Getting back on the K this time I thought in the first couple minutes:

1. The BMW is less eager to rev
2. Hurrah I can hear it again!
3. The BMW is slightly more effort to turn
4. Actually blipping the throttle to downshift is also fun. And my bike sounds much nicer, but I am killing polar bears.

Harrumph. I want to go slightly more mental and try the MT10 next. See how that goes. Probably get going on at least two of the KTM models (GT and R) too.

Part of me thinks "I could get two bikes for the price of the H2, a boring commuter and a mental one!" Another part thinks "My bike will never cost 10k to keep alive." Another part thinks "haha that sheep has no business in those trousers."

[richtea]

Excellent report, Matt. Good photos too. Thanks!

> Basingrad
Fab description. It's been a concrete jungle ever since I was dragged around it as a kid.

You didn't quite say whether it was overall fun to get back on your K or not (other than the noise).
That's probably the ultimate driver for a purchase - excluding CashAckersDosh of course.
Was it still fun?

> I am killing polar bears.
Buying a new bike rather than maintaining the old one may kill more polar bears - tricky balance, this consumerism.

> Another part thinks "haha that sheep has no business in those trousers."
That part probably shouldn't be going out in daylight. And especially not to help you make financial decisions. 

[Bruno]

Great write up Matt. 

[Matt]

Thanks chaps.

@richtea "was it fun to get back on your k...?"

Yeah I think so. But it was 4pm by then and after a day of riding, so it was also some relief and comfort.

[black-k1]

Excellent write up Matt. Another K1300S rider who finds the H2 SX SE is effectively the next iteration of the K1?00S

I suspect that, in the same way as the H2 SX felt on the demo, when you first moved to your K1300S it felt almost too easy to access "big power" and "big speeds". As such, I, for one, found I soon became used to not having to twist my wrist so far on the H2 SX, not having to try as hard, and that easy riding just made everything more relaxed   ....  except when a bit more excitement is wanted!:D

I'm still not sure that moving from a solid, reliable, known K1300S to an H2 SX can be justified.  The K1300S is a superb bike that does everything really well. Until the H2 SX it was the best "do everything" package out there. The H2 SX is better in just about every single way possible, but it's not a LOT better.

[Phmode]

...and despite Matt's irrational 'what can I do today, I know, I'll spend next year's salary?' musing, in the same position (unless Matt's won the lottery and not shared it out), I think I would wait until the Duck starts to hit the second-hand market and the prices fall to more affordable levels.

Let's face it, a second-hand K with few miles are eminently affordable (mine was half-price at 3 year's old with 8,000 on the clock. But then again, us pensioners don't have so much disposable income 

[richtea]

They're not too expensive secondhand (with panniers, but probably mssing some of the tartier bits):

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201906088797605?postcode=de30sg&sort=price-asc&model=NINJA%20H2%20SX&radius=1501&make=KAWASAKI&advertising-location=at_bikes&page=1

£12.5k
I like the bit that says 1,879 miles - motorway miles only.
As opposed to trackday miles? 

[black-k1]

They're not too expensive secondhand (with panniers, but probably mssing some of the tartier bits):

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201906088797605?postcode=de30sg&sort=price-asc&model=NINJA%20H2%20SX&radius=1501&make=KAWASAKI&advertising-location=at_bikes&page=1

£12.5k
I like the bit that says 1,879 miles - motorway miles only.
As opposed to trackday miles? 

Not quite "apples with apples". That's a SX, and not a SX SE or a SX SE+. The SX was only (only!!!???) £15k new last year and appears to have nothing extra other than the panniers. Still, £15k is less than I paid for my K1300S Motorsport (with panniers) in 2016 so £15k is really not that expensive.

[richtea]

...so £15k is really not that expensive.

Ooo - ouch! It's all relative.

In my opinion, bike and car prices have gone slightly nutty in the past 10 years, and I suspect it's a combination of PCP and house prices.
House prices make it near impossible for 30 somethings to buy a home, so "Sod it, I'll get a car/bike on PCP since I can afford that way of showing the world I'm doing OK, and it makes me happy". Fair enough - I'd probably do the same.

Hire purchase was always there back in the day, I know, but not with the same sleight of hand as balloon/GMFV payments, limited mileage, etc.

Back to bikes, excluding the secondhand nature of my recent bikes, the last one I bought new was £5k in 2004, and it was a 1000cc 120BHP Aprilia Falco sports tourer - not a sought-after model, but plenty capable.

UK inflation was at 2.3% * 15 years, so that would be £7k in today's money.

The nearest I can relate that to is a Dorsoduro 900 which is £9k new with a mere 90 BHP, or a Ducati Supersport at £12k and 110 BHP.
One is underpowered, the other overpriced by it's badge.

So where's my bargain sports tourer of 2019 now?


Oh, I ranted. Sorrreeeee. 


Off-rant and counting to 20, I have shelled out on a BMW which was bloody expensive secondhand, but I have more disposable income than 15 years ago (and less flexibility!), so I've accepted it. With a harumph. 

[fjtwelve]

I paid 5500 for my k12 4 years ago, looks like a k13 replacement is going to start with a 7

[Matt]

@richtea indeed, the PCP path looked all well and nice if I throw 10k deposit down. But in 3 years time I won't have an 8k bike to put a similar sent in the 'next round' of PCP.

But anyway yes. Let's see how my valve clearance check goes.

[richtea]

But anyway yes. Let's see how my valve clearance check goes.

Ah, yes. I'm having one of those tomorrow at NOG - an 18k service, but a little early at 16.7k miles since the last owner failed to make good use of it.
But I've made up for him. 7k miles in its first 2.5 years - then 8.5k in 1. One thing a K does well is encourage decent mileage. Not good for the planet necessarily, but good for my well-being, until service time comes around.

Place your bets on cost & loan bike:
I'm going for:
- £550 Yiaooow. 
- F800 GT