EuroKClub
General forum area => The Euro K Club Lounge => Topic started by: Matt on November 07, 2023, 07:40:46 am
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I'm in New Zealand at the moment (humbrol brog) and just picked up a Kia Niro 2 eV to get me around.
From what I've found out so far it's got a motor out front making roughly 200hp, and a 64 something battery that claimed (the car, not the BS marketing material wltp stuff) just over 400km of range. So 240 miles.
I've driven 200km today and the range is 200km less than this morning.
It's quite a nice car for these roads. The power is enough at the NZ "speed kills" low limits everywhere, and it accelerates like you're always in the right gear. Ride comfort is pretty good too, but I didn't bring my e class to compare.
Downsides are probably standard for all new cars. It tries to flipping steer round corners. The annoying thing about this is it's lacking an idea or ability to measure sight lines, so it wants to hug the inside line round bends. It also gets stressed and vibrates the wheel when I change lane, or overtake, or when there's a merge in turn. These happen a lot here as some kind of aid for people joining a main road by turning right.
The auto steering is alright on the motorway though. Add radar cruise and it's a good combo. Though I'm sure everyone following is seeing the car weave from side to side expecting death and destruction.
Anyway. Who's driven or is owning am eV?
Obviously the main thing once all normo stuff is done is charging. I spent 2gbp this morning as I visited that Scottish museum place but the git charger stopped at 80% so it was hardly worth it. Tomorrow I need to leave it in town for a while on a measly 50kw charger otherwise I won't make it to John o groates equivalent. And up here you get one or two chargers and that's it.
And everyone lived happily ever after. Also, Europcar say most of their fleet here is eV now.
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that steering thing is horrible. new defender has it and it's not made for narrow country roads.... it will definitely keep you alert, but not in a nice way. landrover in their wisdom haven't left an "off" option. you can switch it off but when you stop and start the car again it's back on by default.
you don't remember this until it gives you another horror moment jerking the car towards the other side of the road as it thinks the hedge, trees..whatever is too close. it is unnerving to say the least.
i used all my computer training and tech savy to look up where the cameras where at and put insulating tape over them...problem solved. i'm thinking of selling this "fix" to landrover so don't tell them.
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Very nice. Now I am jealous. Of NZ, not Kia, or whatever the car thing was.
If you want to get eNerdy, take Sam out for a drink/meal:
https://www.youtube.com/@NewZeroland/featured
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So, this Kia thing and the Deaf-end-er does the steering for you? Is that even a thing? How does it know where you want to go? What if you change your mind?
I must have had a senior moment and misunderstood...
So do you still steer and wtf is the vibration for.
And in the case of the LR, what the hefll does it do in a field or a farmyard or up a mountain?
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Well the be frank, Margaret, I'm not entirely clued up yet. The Niro at least, has a seemingly always on function that lights an icon when it detects you're in a lane, be it a motorway or a single carriageway. I'm guessing it's looking for white or yellow broken or solid lines.
Without pressing anything if it senses, I dunno, a pretty turny turn, it seems to try and get you going round it. And also if you go over a line it vibrates the wheel and probably makes noise.
Now, I've only tried this on the motorway so far, but if I press some button on the steering wheel I get an extra icon and it steers itself. I've not tried this on a non motorway. It's just keeping between the lines, but it doesn't feel very nice as it drifts in the lane, constantly over correcting, like a drunk driver. None of this will do lane changes or manoeuvres.
Then we have radar cruise. If I enable both i suppose it does help on long journeys. Nicer here though where there is less traffic.
And that's it. I don't know the sensor suite and I'd like to try a current revision Tesla to see if it betters it on this.
(https://i.ibb.co/VB9LsgF/20231107-100513.jpg)
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Update: OK a long press on the auto steering button turned the whole thing off. Just as well as the road up to Cape Reinga turned into a proper fun road. No traffic either apart from an eager German lad who couldn't manage the same overtakes in the hire suzuki hybrid thing he had. It amused me that other than locals the second fastest tourist was a German chap :).
Charging hadn't been too bad either. It's a 64kilobadger battery but I think very efficient, so even these 50kw chargers get me 30 percent in about 30 minutes, which is alright here as taking a break is a good thing. In tourist season proper it might get iffy if there are queues.
In UK I think many are 150kw so less problematic, or perhaps then the limitation is the car. I'm not sure the mac charge speed thingy this can take.
Update ends. Odometer just went over 1k miles. Still has the nice transparent plastic covers over half the dash.
(https://i.ibb.co/8zdqwqB/20231108-150143.jpg)
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OK. Some of that makes sense.
So does it self-steer on normal wibbly roads? How would it do on the road past my place for instance?
Apart from the obvious, unasked question of 'why?' One wonders who?
Does it do overtakes? Does it do nearsides and offsides? Who started this thing?
But anyway, was NZ worth two days of your life in a bean tin to get there and back?
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Not sure if I have got my head around this, but when I was looking for an electric car I was under the impression that they were cheap to run?
But if I do a run to the NEC for the bike show, it is around 300 miles round trip on Motorways:
- My Diesel Car - 45mpg, approx £7.25 per Gallon = £48.50
- The Electric Car I was looking at - 3.1miles per kW, 65p per kW = £62.90
So Diesel even with 60% tax added on it is still cheaper for a journey? I know if I spend £1,000 and put a charger in at home it is a lot cheaper which is OK if you always use it, but it's not cheap when you are out and about and when the Gov decide they need to start getting their tax back on electric vehicles (probably road pricing) it will be even worse >:(
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Electric was the cheaper option until Putin decided he wanted to holiday in the Ukraine.
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Keep the posts coming cuz it’s been a topic of conversation in the house of recent living on the side of the M6 like we do and it’s normally our first option when travelling anywhere the increase in the number of electric cars and vans we see on it must be up by 30/40 percent at the very least, ranging from the very trick looking MG’sto the endless number of Tesla’s
The biggest problem as I see it is just the lack of willingness to adapt,and the best example I can up with how many of you give run a lithium battery on your bikes,got to the point of not mentioning such on forums cuz bikers are so ingrained with lead acid,bought my first one must 6 years and still going strong and currently run my old 1100s/Tiger 955/K1200r Sport/KTM GT/1050 SpeedTriple/XR1000 bought a new charger and had to buy a new RR for the Tiger cuz the early Triumphs didn’t like it apart from that it’s been happy days and when doing a charge on them all in garage yesterday most needed less than 30 minutes despite lack of use.
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The biggest problem as I see it is just the lack of willingness to adapt...
More like a lack of willingness to commit a chunk of cash until the price becomes normalised.
I'd say they're getting pretty close though. 150-200 mile range used compact cars are now in the £8-12k range, for something not too ancient. I'd consider that's reasonable for a local runabout - as in 80% of trips, and keep a diesel chugger for the long distance trips.
I'm just waiting for diesel chugger No 2 to die, but it insists on being reliable. Another year or two, and we'll be there.
As for electric motorbikes - they're not doing as well as I expected. The prices are stubbornly high, and so sales are stubbornly low, with only Energica making what I'd call a usable bike (distance, fast charge, performance, quality). But £20k secondhand. Ouch.
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Start of Covid had to come up with a plan,our holidays would start mid year after we had ridden to Le-Mans for the bike 24 hour mid April come home and a month later NW200 and think about what ever back in Europe for our real hols.
Decided we would swap manual mountain bikes for electric versions,talk about a learning curve both financial and technical I’d be typing all night to cover what has gone on and hence my reluctance,
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Not sure if I have got my head around this, but when I was looking for an electric car I was under the impression that they were cheap to run?
But if I do a run to the NEC for the bike show, it is around 300 miles round trip on Motorways:
- My Diesel Car - 45mpg, approx £7.25 per Gallon = £48.50
- The Electric Car I was looking at - 3.1miles per kW, 65p per kW = £62.90
So Diesel even with 60% tax added on it is still cheaper for a journey? I know if I spend £1,000 and put a charger in at home it is a lot cheaper which is OK if you always use it, but it's not cheap when you are out and about and when the Gov decide they need to start getting their tax back on electric vehicles (probably road pricing) it will be even worse >:(
For sure public chargers are spendy. Out here they're 0.8NZD per kw-budgie or wtf. So that about 40gbp pence a kw. The real saving (ignoring buying an old Tesla Model S/X and getting free supercharging) is charging at home where it's... whatever our rates are now. They used to be 12p before everything went to crap. Ok, 28.85p per kwh for my electricity at home. I'm getting it charged for free at this hotel.
This thing is getting 4.1 miles per kwh over these last few days. 4.4 for the day I was on motorways most of the day. But that is very efficient, i'm quite surprised as whatever reading I previously did told me 3 was decent. But then I am on open roads, almost no traffic - so no stop start action - and occasional overtakes. I imagine my average speed is quite high, but I never go over 65-70mph, mostly sat at 60.
Anyway yeah, home charge means about 25 quid for the 300 mile trip, and if you need public for the extra distance, it's getting subsidised by however often you fill up at home. i.e our annual diesel cost per mile is averaged out over the cost of diesel at every fill. So if most fills of electricity are at home then the weighted cost is towards the 29p end of the scale.
Or something. Anyway, this place doesn't have an eV charging station but just an outdoor plug. So it'll be on the slow slow tonight, and hopefully tomorrow will be full.
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OK. Some of that makes sense.
So does it self-steer on normal wibbly roads? How would it do on the road past my place for instance?
Apart from the obvious, unasked question of 'why?' One wonders who?
Does it do overtakes? Does it do nearsides and offsides? Who started this thing?
But anyway, was NZ worth two days of your life in a bean tin to get there and back?
Sorry Bri, answering your pieces:
1. Does it steer on wibbly roads? It tries to if it thinks one is going to not steer in time. But as I say, it doesn't respect efforts to take sight lines into account let alone straight lining stuff. It has no context. I'd say it sees a line getting close and steers away. Until it gets close to the next line. That's default behaviour. If you turn on auto steer it ups its game to assuming you won't steer. I think.
2. How do on my road? It needs lines to stick between. I also don't know what the manual says. I'd only want to use auto steer on motorways. Let's call the lower down default intervention "safety steer". If it can't see any lines it does nothing.
3. Why and who. I don't know who. It seems too inconsistent to say "sure, anyone who's just going A to B and doesn't enjoy driving". One moment it'll try and "rescue" you and the next it'll do nothing. If you've been eagle eyed on the dash you'll notice the little green lane steering icon go off but if you've been watching the road or your phone, it'll be a surprise. Ie I don't trust it. The why could be answered if it evolves to a consistent experience. But as the environment isn't consistent I don't see it ever getting there. The exception being cars with intelligent vision, but then even Tesla took cameras off the 3 because they disagreed with the radar. Brill.
4. Does it do overtakes? Nope. I think a Tesla with some top level option does. This one just has less of a fit if I indicate before changing lanes. Let's say I'm on a motorway and on full auto steer. And radar cruise. Relaxed grip on steering wheel, letting it do it. And the guy in front is slowing, and the next lane is empty. I'll indicate right, move into that lane with maybe a brief vibrating steering wheel feeling. I'll not have touched any pedals though either. Then I'll relax steering wheel grip again and it'll return to target speed until an obstacle/car appears.
5. Who's fault? Bob Hoskins. Nearside offside not sure what maneuver we talking aboot
6. Was it worth it? Yes! I got to see my friend, and I've been getting to appreciate how a country with single digit millions works. Today I walked to a beach and didn't see another human. A deserted beach. Standard here. I'm heading back to the city in a couple of days and will spend a bit of time in Auckland proper, given that's where the work is. Although even then the nearest beach is 45 minutes, and most of that is through forest. Even up here (Google Karikari peninsula) it isn't that far. I've not found anything terrible or that would make me unhappy to live here for the next 6 months. Yet. Hurrah for British pessimism!
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The important part of this thread,the car is rented!!!! from my experience of all things electric legally used in the UK I would be looking to do the same sure as hell wouldn’t buy one,not yet anyway.
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But...buying an ex-rental might be a good idea. Let's face it, every ice car has had the nuts, bolts, screws and washers, cogs, gears and other reciprocating wotnots thrashed off it since before it was ruined in. No such nuts, bolts, screws or washers, cogs, gears or other reciprocating wotnots to be thrashed on an electric vehicle.
Even the brakes will have had an easier time of it what with the 'one-pedal driving' malarkey.
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But...buying an ex-rental might be a good idea. Let's face it, every ice car has had the nuts, bolts, screws and washers, cogs, gears and other reciprocating wotnots thrashed off it since before it was ruined in. No such nuts, bolts, screws or washers, cogs, gears or other reciprocating wotnots to be thrashed on an electric vehicle.
Even the brakes will have had an easier time of it what with the 'one-pedal driving' malarkey.
I keep forgetting to mention that. Or forgetting I mentioned it.
One pedal driving in this car is super. I started my driving life using 3 pedals, then got to two, and now to one! I don't think the retardation is adjustable, it's just on or off for this car, but it's great on these roads, and predictable. It also worked great on a 10km stretch of proper steep gravel stuff I had to do. Was better at stopping the car without slipping than when I tried the actual brakes.
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But...buying an ex-rental might be a good idea. Let's face it, every ice car has had the nuts, bolts, screws and washers, cogs, gears and other reciprocating wotnots thrashed off it since before it was ruined in. No such nuts, bolts, screws or washers, cogs, gears or other reciprocating wotnots to be thrashed on an electric vehicle.
Even the brakes will have had an easier time of it what with the 'one-pedal driving' malarkey.
Perfect example of what I am on about,this electric thing is all very well when they have got going.but they haven’t18 months from now (at least) but what will happen one electric motor will come out on top and that’s just the motor,I had a situation where as the whole mountain bike trade changed spec and left us all high and dry.
Its where we are all at risk trying comparing our old internal combustion history to all this electric stuff,it’s a completely different ball game which isn’t a problem so long as one knows what one is getting into 😄
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in answer to phmode, in a field or farmyard the speed is below when the steering assist kicks in... think it's 15 mph...maybe 20, as for the mountain....it's just too shiny and i haven't got the heart to do it.
as for electric, i think there is a lack of charge points outside the big cities/towns. brother has had a plug in hybrid for a while now and his biggest gripe is chargers not working...or disappearing ocassionaly. afew years ago the powers that be decided if a charger wasn't being used enough they uprooted it and placed it in a different site...so the small town chargers headed to big towns. that said they are more common now.
i don't see them as able to replace the i.c.e yet ...for haulage and distance work any way, cities could be the exception but going from country area to country area they aren't a realistic replacement.... yet.
electric motors are by and large similar, more poles, brushless even bearingless one now but i don't see major improvements there, batteries could be where its at.... thats a job for smart people.
anywho.. hope new zealand is nice, great to be where there are no snakes !!
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Well I'm back now and today had to take my car in for some recall work. Something about an airbag not deploying, or overly deploying. It was the passenger one so I stopped reading after that bit.
Last time in I had some A class pretending to be a C class (An A class with a boot, or something, like the Jetta, whatever we call that), and this time they gave me a 200 mile old EQC (https://www.mercedes-benz.co.uk/passengercars/mercedes-benz-cars/models/eqc/explore.html).
Off I toddled and had a few surprising moments when I put my foot down and it went. Some faffing with the display told me it was dual motor (one front, one back).
Once home and after my morning sit-down-stand-up I googled to find it's just over 400hp. But with a range of maybe 190 miles at this time of year, varying greatly based on how used.
I have to admit - don't even think about trying to stop me admitting - that it was quite nice. I've never driven an SUV style thing before, but I still made it through some width restriction stuff by me without trouble placing the wheels. Not sure how it differs width wise to mine though. Ok it's 4 inches wider. Steering is a bit fluffy, not as weighty as I'd like, but like all modern cars it has "modes" so maybe they alter it amongst the other stuff.
It uses front/rear/all wheel drive based on demand and some other stuff I haven't thought much about yet. Pretty hilarious to floor it around 30mph and it jumps forward. I did that in my E350 leaving the dealer and it just span the rear after a second spooling up.
So yes, another quiet EV, refined, different to the Niro, but I'd have to drive both in the UK to determine my personal preference. EQCs are somewhat "cheap" though as current gen ones are now appearing 3 year, end of lease age.
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Definitely getting affordable secondhand. Good BHP per £k.
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Re reading this god know what the exclamation mark was doing so re-done e’m,but getting back to electric mountain bike the talk is always Shimano/Bosch/Brose we’re as cars are still only ‘Electric
Out of interesting how many of you have ditched your lead/acid batteries???
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Definitely getting affordable secondhand. Good BHP per £k.
Yeah this and the early etron are now under 30k for early examples. Oh and the ipace. Alas the range is the stumbling block, but most 400hp cars are probably under 300 miles... Maybe! My old 325i wasn't much bryong 300. This dirty diesel has spoiled me with the nearly 600 mile range.
Edit: forgot some piccies
(https://i.ibb.co/xm0zRvR/20231211-121010.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/QYzMHJ1/20231211-084959.jpg)
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Can't make my mind up on this, but I might be getting a EQC400.
Lots of good points - nice car, four wheel drive, reasonable boot space (for two dogs).
Bad points - real world range of 240 miles in summer dropping to 175 in winter :o. But looking at my current use it will only be a problem a few times a year - going to Birmingham for the bike show for example. All other big journeys are by bike.
Not even got it and have range anxiety.
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A friend of mine is looking at this. He has sent some time looking very carefully at his travel needs and has come to the conclusion that electric will work (4 wheels) but he has to allow a budget to cover hire cars for those occasions when greater range is needed.
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Can't make my mind up on this, but I might be getting a EQC400.
Lots of good points - nice car, four wheel drive, reasonable boot space (for two dogs).
Bad points - real world range of 240 miles in summer dropping to 175 in winter :o. But looking at my current use it will only be a problem a few times a year - going to Birmingham for the bike show for example. All other big journeys are by bike.
Not even got it and have range anxiety.
Woo! I'm still going back and forth doing all the mental gymnastics.
Way I see it, at this price point (25-30k if we're talking sensible and used ones) there are three options, although one of em I've mostly discounted:
1. 2020+ Jaguar I-Pace
Pro: Roughly this time it got a facelift which at least removed one of the troublesome 12v batteries, and maybe fixed the windscreen, plus better computery bits
Con: Possibly still an issue with windscreens coming free of the frame and letting water in.
Pro: If you buy it used-approved (which is still possible in the above budget) you can generally get a 2 year warranty, some kind of deposit contribution, and also a charge point installation at home.
Con: Apparently Jaguar dealers. But also they forgot to ramp up spares production after the apocalypse so can take a while for any work to be done.
Pro/Con: More sport over comfort, handling/suspension wise
2. 2020+ Mercedes EQC
Pro: I think it's nice inside (though have yet to try the others)
Con: Range seems possibly a bit worse than the Jaguar, but it's so difficult to know for sure. For every "it low range!" there's another one saying "it find for me!"
Pro/Con: More comfort over sporty, handling/suspension wise
Con: More difficult to get in the above budget from a dealer at present
3. 2020+ Audi e-tron 55
Pro: Apparently the most comfortable
Con: Pretty much universal acknowledgement that range is worse than the above two
Or something. I'm hungry and brain isn't working properly. One thing I really want with whichever, is the auto steering thing for the motorway. It's such a faff understanding this as every manufacturer calls it something different, and every one also has the EU5 or wtf lane departure thing to muddy the water. From what I can tell, the Jag HSE will have it by default, the EQC needs Premium Plus trim-level, and the Audi I believe has it by default.
Oh, and I think all of these fall into the whole pandemic chip shortage world of fun, where bits and bobs may be missing for 2021 onwards. In any case, whichever car I reckon an ideally-manufacturer approved warranty is a must!
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One thing I really want with whichever, is the auto steering thing for the motorway.
I would have never have auto-steering unless it's off by default, like cruise control. It's bad enough having 'city braking' where the bloody car thinks I'm about to ram the hedge I'm parking towards. Grrr.
You're led to believe you can relax and take less care driving - like many people take much care anyway. "Let the car do it, sir, it won't make mistakes like you do."
When everything on the road is autosteering and utterly predictable that will be fine. That may never happen.
Next they'll take my gears away, I tell you.
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Yeah the trouble with the two I've tried above, and actually all cars post maybe this year or last, is that regs now say the lane keeping assist has to be on by default.
To be clear I turned it off every time I started the car. The 2nd level, auto steer thing, I'd use on the motorway only. Although the near empty NZ motorways were probably ideal places for this. I might hate it in the busy UK!
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is that regs now say the lane keeping assist has to be on by default.
There will be a dongle thingle that plugs into the OBD port to turn it to off. It's like my stop/start phaff that is permanently off thanks to one of those wotnots.
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Next they'll take my gears away, I tell you.
Mini has already (announced it has?) made its last car with a manual gearbox.
At least when all cars are auto-steering the idiots won't be turning right in front of bikers.
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How does the lane assist work on country roads where you often clip the centre line on open bends? Presumably annoying enough to disable it?
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For me, whatever it does will be wrong.
I love most tech, among my favourites are:
the computerised telescope that just goes exactly where I tell it without me having to anywhere near it or to know where in the sky what I want to see actually is
cruise control which stops me from creeping over the limit by more than enough
ABS which stops me hitting things in virtually all conditions (except snow)
automated supermarket check out tills
Automated steering is just one more reason to not pay attention to what you are doing and how you are doing it. When I drive, or ride, I always want to go faster than the guy in front (present company excepted) which means I am always looking for overtakes, near-siding, off-siding, looking for opportunities, gaps, landing spots. No current tech can do that for me.
Now then, if auto-steering was coupled with night vision it 'might' just have avoided the enormous pothole that cost Glos CC a new tyre for the car. But then again, that would have meant contravening a white line so it might have actually prevented me from avaoiding it had I had night vision that could have spotted it.
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At least when all cars are auto-steering the idiots won't be turning right in front of bikers.
SMAIDSY
Sorry mate, AI didn't see you.
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How does the lane assist work on country roads where you often clip the centre line on open bends? Presumably annoying enough to disable it?
I only tried this in empty New Zealand roads:
Lane keeping default on thing: as you correctly suspect, a massive pain in the ass for actually driving progressively. Disabled.
Auto steering: I'd enable it occasionally when faffing with nav or otherwise distracted. It wasn't great on anything more than a slight bend in the road. Radii smaller than the moon and it wanted to steer into a corner too aggressively and then as it crosses the line either steer back or just disable itself with a "k good luck" beep
The more I think about this set of aids, the more I think that in the UK I'd probably get little value from it.
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It worries me that other road users are thinking all this stuff is great cos then they can get on with watching porn/texting their mother/placing their supermarket order. Scary!
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It worries me that other road users are thinking all this stuff is great cos then they can get on with watching porn/texting their mother/placing their supermarket order. Scary!
Only scary if you think the average driver can drive better than the computer. I'm not sure that's the case as many of them are already watching porn/texting their mother/placing their supermarket order without all of the driving aids! :(
As a PS, I've also never seen a computer drunk or stoned!
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Ack what's worse is there's devices on the ebays to allow android auto or Apple badger play to play movies on the car screen whilst driving :/.
But I agree whilst this stuff is in its infancy it is scary.
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Ack what's worse is there's devices on the ebays to allow android auto or Apple badger play to play movies on the car screen whilst driving :/.
But I agree whilst this stuff is in its infancy it is scary.
Hey Matt…what’s an Apple badger? :o
Is that a furry black & white animal in an orchard? ;)
-=Glyn=-
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I would be happy with the auto park function though, never really got the hang of that ::)
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As a PS, I've also never seen a computer drunk or stoned!
Yeah, but I have seen a software developer drunk, stoned or just plain incompetent [p17 sec 7.3] (https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/sites/default/files/2022-11/FUJ00080690%20Report%20on%20the%20EPOSS%20PinICL%20Task%20Force%2014052001.pdf).
SiSo: Sh*t , sh*t out.
However, I agree the computer-controlled car will be a better driver than a human in a controlled environment.
It's the edge cases I worry about where there's a mix of automated and non-automated traffic - like a non-automated small-detection-area motorcycle filtering through auto-driving motorway traffic.
Will the auto autos notice it? Will they auto-change lane regardless? Or maybe they will scatter, and set off a ripple of emergency manoeuvres across the lanes?
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I agree Rich that the edge cases are going to be a problem for self driving vehicles and we motorcyclists are definitely going to be some of those edge cases with some potentially very significant consequences. I'll also say that, as someone who enjoys driving and really enjoys riding my motorcycles, I, personally, am not looking forward to being in self driving cars
That all said, I am looking forward to cars being driven in ways that are much more likely to reduce the risk to me on the road. My commute into London showed me too many drivers who were watching video, smoking joints, texting or otherwise avoiding the requirement to concentrate on the road, to tell me that while self driving cars will be far from perfect, they will likely be significantly better than what we have at the moment.
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It's going to be 'different', that's for sure.
For those erm, shall we say assertive drivers who do not sit at a paint-spot roundabout waiting for the first driver to appear to make the first move (you can spend a lifetime waiting for the ninnies to make a decision) the auto cars are going to have to give way to me because they have no 'assertive' mode. They will always capitulate and that makes me happy. For now...
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As I walked to the shops this morning an electric MG thing was reversing off its driveway on the opposite side of the road. As I walked past it appears its pedestrian safety thing kicked in as it stopped dead mid manoeuvre. I had this happen with the Kia too. As I was on the opposite pavement it could quite safely have completed reversing onto the road but it seems they assume the drive will forget to steer and go straight back up the opposite kerb.
I wonder how many road deaths have happened like that.