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General forum area => Oils & Lubricants => Topic started by: dscfcp on July 09, 2017, 10:00:46 am

Title: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: dscfcp on July 09, 2017, 10:00:46 am
Hi,
Unfortunately my joining this forum last week has coincided with some pretty bad news about my shaft drive. My mate who knows a lot more about BMW's than me (my K1300r is my first) has called me last night to say the whining noise I heard on Tuesday is definitely my main bearing gone...lots of play in the back wheel, rear wheel disc shows some blueing. Culprit would seem to be lack of oil in the shaft, even though I had the dealer change this last September before a trip round Spain. The bike has done only 9,000 miles so I wouldn't expect a failure like this.
I was wondering if anyone has had or heard of a similar experience with BMW dealers, shaft oil change, oil volume (230mls ?).
I'm new to BMW ownership and I'll call the dealers tomorrow and see what reaction I get...I'm hoping a very helpful one. Unfortunately it ran out of warranty end of December.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Philip on July 09, 2017, 01:39:57 pm
Hi Danny, i'm killing two birds with one stone replying to this post.
I saw you're other post, & i'm in Wistaston, Crewe, so would be happy to meet up for a rideout.

Sounds like you have a big problem with the diff & 230cc is the correct amount of oil, although some have said it has been reduced to 180cc, not that the change would have caused your problem anyway.
Ron, 'drumwreaker' had a similar problem recently, have a look through his posts from earlier this year.
His local BM dealer diagnosed a new diff bearing, but when he took it to a local independant BM specialist it was just a trunion bearing worn which was much cheaper to replace.
I went to Southern France with him a month ago & he had no further problems.

So if the dealer agrees to fix this FOC then no problem, but if he want to charge you megabucks for a new diff, it might be worth getting a second opinion.

Lets hope yours is a simple & cheap fix.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: drumwrecker on July 09, 2017, 03:05:24 pm
Steve at Motoscot somehow isolated the diff by placing the blade of a screwdriver in a gap on the final drive housing and tried the wheel which showed no play then they inspected the Para lever bearing and that was where the play was so bearings and trunion were replaced at a cost of about £95.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Costas on July 09, 2017, 04:22:26 pm
Hi Danny, i'm killing two birds with one stone replying to this post.
I saw you're other post, & i'm in Wistaston, Crewe, so would be happy to meet up for a rideout.

Sounds like you have a big problem with the diff & 230cc is the correct amount of oil, although some have said it has been reduced to 180cc, not that the change would have caused your problem anyway.
Ron, 'drumwreaker' had a similar problem recently, have a look through his posts from earlier this year.
His local BM dealer diagnosed a new diff bearing, but when he took it to a local independant BM specialist it was just a trunion bearing worn which was much cheaper to replace.
I went to Southern France with him a month ago & he had no further problems.
It's down to 180cc with general order issued back in 2012.

So if the dealer agrees to fix this FOC then no problem, but if he want to charge you megabucks for a new diff, it might be worth getting a second opinion.

Lets hope yours is a simple & cheap fix.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Phmode on July 09, 2017, 05:57:22 pm
As you were saying Costas....
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Costas on July 10, 2017, 10:54:18 am
180cc is the new Directive issued back in 3/2012.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Eyore on July 10, 2017, 01:15:54 pm
Presumably that was to solve the problem of leaking final drive seals which would seem to be ultimately caused b y the lack of any vent to release any pressure build up.  :( ::)
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Phmode on July 10, 2017, 11:30:22 pm
Not a cynical bone in your body  ;D
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Eyore on July 11, 2017, 01:38:36 pm
Not a cynical bone in your body  ;D

Au contraire. I fully admit to being bitter, twisted and cynical. I think its called getting old.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Phmode on July 11, 2017, 02:15:19 pm
I prefer to think of it as getting wise  8)

Age is a state of knees!
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: stevel on July 11, 2017, 02:51:26 pm
If there's play in the rear wheel, it would have to be either the main bearing (ie the one situated next to the drive flange), or the needle roller bearing at the other end of the rear axle. Either way, they're not actually hard to change yourself if you are handy with the wrenches - can be done for around £125 all in, using the best bearings man can find along with a new BMW seal to keep all the slippery stuff where it should be.

The spec for the amount of oil in the rear drive changed some time ago to 180ml, and as already stated was due to pressure build up when things got nice & warm - on an autobahn a few weeks ago, my friends' K1200GT (which did have 220ml in the rear drive) leaked a small amount of oil onto the rear wheel - it was around 29°C, and we'd been doing 150 mph at times. We cleaned up the spillage, and since the rest of the trip was slower & colder, no more leakage!

Anyway, do let us know what the dealer says!


Steve
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: dscfcp on July 14, 2017, 08:23:42 pm
So the dealer wrang me with their findings. The main diff bearing has excessive wear and so do the swing arm bearings (seem to be 2 types according to parts list...tapered roller bearing (2 of) or a needle bearing (1 of). I guess they mean the roller bearings.
Strip down, replacement parts and rebuild £670. Apparently BMW have agreed to pay for all parts and 70% of labour costs, so I pay £100.
I'm pretty happy with  that, as the bike is out of warranty, however I'm still not happy that these have shown excessive wear after only 9000 miles. Should I prepare myself that this normal wear and tear for a shaft drive BM. I'm told BMW often manufacture these without greasing the splines which can cause this type of wear on the bearings. As I'm new to BMW ownership, the service has been good handling the problem but a failure so early n the bikes life isn't helping me stay with brand.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: dscfcp on July 14, 2017, 08:29:44 pm
BTW - dealer confirmed oil capacity for final drive is 180mls, interesting to read the comments about why this has been reduced by BMW. Service schedule reckons to change every 2 years or 20km...think I'll be changing it a bit more frequently
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: raesewell on July 14, 2017, 08:35:59 pm
You can be assured that if we give you information it will be correct as there are some in this forum that know a lot more than the dealers. ;)
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Eyore on July 15, 2017, 08:15:49 am
You can be assured that if we give you information it will be correct as there are some in this forum that know a lot more than the dealers. ;)

.........................and anything you do say may be used as evidence in a court of law  ;D
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: beech on June 17, 2019, 05:58:36 am
Your first post hinted at lack of oil. The new style final drive bearings have few failures so you may be onto something. Yes change it every year or some figure you like. The drain plug is Torx be sure to use the correct size. There is one just below it that fits but can slip. I can't remember but I think the correct size is T47. It will be snug not rattly. Also there is an oring on it that is the seal. Clean the bore well and if any chips out of that oring use a new one. Torque is 20 Nm, not too much really because there is no crush washer. I fill from the ABS sensor but there is a plug that is Hex also. (you have to remove the rear wheel) Use a good GL5 rated oil and don't go thick, stay with the 75W90 or 80W90 stuff. I had over 100,000 miles on mine when I changed to a younger one just for fun. Working on 120,000 miles on my 09 K1300S and it is fine. Of course there is plenty of maintenance to do. Don't forget to clean and grease your lower rear shock linkage every two years. Not in the maintenance list but was a note on it when a few broke years back. There are many items that need attention that are not on the service lists.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: raesewell on June 17, 2019, 09:26:57 am
Holy thread revival Batman.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: richtea on June 17, 2019, 09:45:21 am
But still good to be reminded of things like this:

- Don't forget to clean and grease your lower rear shock linkage every two years.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: raesewell on June 17, 2019, 09:51:52 am
- Don't forget to clean and grease your lower rear shock linkage every two years.
The FJR has it in the service schedule every 12000 miles. So that equates to every year for me.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Matt on June 17, 2019, 04:25:52 pm
But still good to be reminded of things like this:

- Don't forget to clean and grease your lower rear shock linkage every two years.

Damn it yet. Whoever does it next please take some photos for dummies like me who don't often look down there!
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: richtea on June 17, 2019, 04:33:40 pm
But still good to be reminded of things like this:

- Don't forget to clean and grease your lower rear shock linkage every two years.

Damn it yet. Whoever does it next please take some photos for dummies like me who don't often look down there!

Yes please!
I'm prepared to ride to <insert somewhere> and have some guidance me on how. And pay, but not BMW dealer prices. Will also supply biscuits.

This is where Rae's FJR club wins hands down - they have a tame mechanic or two. Would they ever consider BMWs, Rae? Or is that the way of madness?
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Phmode on June 17, 2019, 04:46:09 pm
If you 'never look down there', the chances of you getting a set of metric Spaniards and a metric socket set and dismantling the fish plates to get to the dog-bone link and its associated needle roller bearings and carefully removing said bearings without losing all the dog-bone-dry needles, packing them with messy old grease and getting it all back together the way it came apart then tightening the new nuts and bolts (the manual says you must use but no-one does) to the specified torque settings with your spanking new torque wrench, must be almost zero.

You don't need a piccie, hands and knees and head down, then look up in front of the swing-arm where it passes in front of the rear wheel. Triangular plates either side of the dog-bone link (the thing that looks like a dog bone running horizontally forwards to the chassis), the bottom eye of the rear shock absorber (really a coil-over damper unit to you) and the bottom of the curved portion of the swimg-arm.

Simples!

Come over for a ride and I'll do it for you while you pour the beers. Once I get over this coughing and snotting you gave me last week, that is unless you want it back again  8)
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: raesewell on June 17, 2019, 04:59:15 pm
This is where Rae's FJR club wins hands down - they have a tame mechanic or two. Would they ever consider BMWs, Rae? Or is that the way of madness?
I did it on the GT it's not such a big job if you have a centre stand, which you do.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: richtea on June 17, 2019, 06:07:38 pm
Come over for a ride and I'll do it for you while you pour the beers. Once I get over this coughing and snotting you gave me last week, that is unless you want it back again  8)

Yes please, you're on! On a sunny day, mind.
Name your beer of preference.

I will look, and see if I have any of the correct-sized spanners. :-)

> your spanking new torque wrench
How did you know? Well, not utterly brand new, but defo this years purchase. The old one went rusty through abuse/lack of use, etc.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Phmode on June 17, 2019, 06:49:22 pm
I have more than sufficient tools for the job so you can travel light  8)

Doombar will do nicely. Room temperature or above for preference  :)
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Matt on June 17, 2019, 07:46:53 pm
I'm thinking mini meet up with grease!

Although I don't have a centre stand. So we can do Rich's, then take his centre stand off, put it on mine, do mine, take centre stand off, put it back on Rich's.

Easy.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: raesewell on June 17, 2019, 07:50:00 pm
I'm thinking mini meet up with grease!
Too much information Matt, the mind boggles  :o
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: richtea on June 17, 2019, 08:49:03 pm
Doombar it is. I know you like it warm, so I'll fill my radiator with it.  :o

Name a date (no rush), and I'll scan the weather.
Cheers!
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Phmode on June 18, 2019, 12:01:51 pm
Any mid-week day. We can partake of lunch at the pub and mess the bike up later... 8)

And Matt. You are welcome to keep score but this is one job for which even a rear paddock stand is useless...you really can't beat a centre stand.
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Phmode on June 18, 2019, 01:21:28 pm
If we make it next week or later, I 'may' have a way of doing Matt's as well, but only with the three of us here together  :o
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: richtea on June 18, 2019, 01:24:48 pm
If we make it next week or later, I 'may' have a way of doing Matt's as well, but only with the three of us here together  :o

Next week or later is fine by me, Brian. There's no rush until bad weather arrives (oh), and the more the merrier.
Does it involve two people holding a K1300 up?  ::)
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Phmode on June 18, 2019, 01:53:52 pm
Not 'holding' it up!

But it does involve one very tall, strong man and a long steel bar...and it's going to cost Matt way more than beer... 8)
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: richtea on June 18, 2019, 02:06:52 pm

But it does involve one very tall, strong man and a long steel bar...and it's going to cost Matt way more than beer... 8)


(https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/history-caveman-neanderthal-invent-inventor-invention-dcr0736_low.jpg)
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Phmode on June 18, 2019, 04:50:54 pm
You got it in one  8)
Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Andym535 on June 18, 2019, 05:28:42 pm
I've got one of these, originally bought for lifting my Triumph Thunderbird. You're welcome to borrow it, but it's not transportable by bike. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsZYVibzzrA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsZYVibzzrA)

Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Matt on June 18, 2019, 08:18:45 pm
Haha ok ok I will retire from this adventure!

Title: Re: Shaft drive - Main diff bearing failure
Post by: Andym535 on June 18, 2019, 09:30:35 pm
Just a quick comment on the original subject of this thread... Surely there isn't a diff in the final drive; there's only one rear wheel. Unless diff is short for different direction rather than differential.