Author Topic: Double double vision vision.  (Read 1471 times)

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Offline Phmode

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Double double vision vision.
« on: May 02, 2024, 09:44:41 pm »
Those of you who bothered to follow the sorry tale of my double vision whilst straightening out some of Wales' best bends, especially those foolish enough to ride with me, you will be glad to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Of course, it could just be the headlight of the oncoming express but hey, progress is progress.

It all began on a day run out on the Welsh Wramble back in 2022 when the world suddenly seemed to tilt on its axis heading into a tightening right hander. Luckily, being tail end Charlie, when I stood the bike up on the brakes while I tried to decide which of the two roads I should take, there was no one behind to collect the black K shaped roadblock.

And then it cleared and on I went. And then it came back and went and came back. Eventually we all stopped and I decided to head back to the B&B. Well, we were sort of on the way back anyway but I bimbled back on my own.

Lots of debate and phaffing around with specs and helmet produced no tangible results and I put it down to a combination of old age, tiredness and a shortage of alcohol.

But next day, even after a couple of bottles of red with supper, it came back again.

Since then I have tried, not in any particular order, changing the prescription for my glasses, twice, changing the frames, ordering new padding for the Schuberth C3 and then cancelling it and buying a Schuberth C5, using plenty of Optrex and maintaining hydration, the latter two on the advice of my optician.

Still no results but lots of evidence to say it happens with all four of my helmets and both of my bikes with about four different pairs of glasses whilst the longest ride before it happens is about an hour and half and the quickest onset was 20 mins on the wee Honda. And there are no other symptoms; no headaches, no flashing lights in the eyes, no nothing else.

The optician is baffled and has finally made an appointment at the hospital ophthalmic department for early June with the warning that they may be forced to tell DVLA about the problem which could result in me losing my motorcycle entitlement or even, at the whim of some working-from-home 17 year old bureaucrat, my entire licence. OK, that's serious. But so is the problem.

I have always been in doubt about the fit of my C3, well, both of them to be honest, together with the ancient BMW System 4 (made by Schuberth) and even the brand spanking new C5. And the C5 isn't nearly as comfortable as I remember it in the shop. So last week I actually measured my head which I got to be 58cm whilst all my helmets are 56/57 Mediums.

Despite buying my C5 and both C3's from Helmet City, I decided to reach out to Chris at Motolegends to see if he would check out the fit of the C5. I explained the problems I was having and he told me to get my arse into the shop as soon as possible. That was Tuesday. I presented myself bright and early on Wednesday, had a couple of coffees whilst I waited to be admitted to the inner sanctum and then it all went slightly pear shaped.

I was hoping beyond hope that they would all roll about on the floor in fits of laughter, calling everyone from the office and the warehouse, to come see this daft twat who has been wearing a headshrinkingly tight helmet for the last 20 odd years and in which I have ridden to Athens, the med twice and one half, and all the Wrinklies till the problem started.

But no! To my utter dismay, Chris and various other members of staff declared the C5 to be a perfect fit for my somewhere between 57 and 58 head, other than perhaps sitting a little too low on the brow ridge, a feature about which they could do little in the case of the Schuberth to which I had already added the thinner back head pad.

By this time I had steeled myself to having to spend money on something but better that than a lifetime of taxis and I knew that Chris was going to try to persuade me to go over to the dark side and try a Shoei with the all-singing, all-dancing Personal Fitting Service (only by booking in advance) guaranteeing a perfect fit for a mere £50, refundable on purchase of said Shoei. And that is what happened. Sort of. But not quite.

I really wasn't prepared for the level of genuine concern and care that everyone at Motolegends showed to me when they heard about the problems I was having but when Chris called down his chief FPS consulting guy and told him to fit me up at no cost I was more than a little overwhelmed, but then, the cynic that I am thought it might just be a great marketing tool.

We spent about 20 minutes putting what seemed like a combination of dozens of different bits of foam and padding into a Neotec 3 mule helmet until we got what I felt was a comfortable fit, way different from the Schuberth and with me relying heavily on the Shoei tech and the skill of Rob the fitter. When we had what we both felt was the best possible fit Rob went and got a brand spanking new Neotec 3 in sublime gloss white and transferred all the bits and bobs from the mule into the new one. And with that Chris handed me a returns label and told me to take it away on a sale or return basis and try it for a few days. 'Don't take it to Scotland but Wales is fine...' were his actual words. OK, so he charged me full RRP of a beer under £600 for the privilege but let's face it, he is in business and knows me not from Adam.

And so I drove home with two brand spanking new top of the range gloss white helmets on the back seat of the car (I wasn't riding 120 miles on the bike with double vision, c'mon).

I hated the Shoei from the get go but I got togged up as soon as I got home at 5pm and went out for a couple of hours in the rain. It was actually two and half hours and no sign of double vision. I was impressed. And relieved and went to bed in a slightly better frame of mind than many a night in recent months but tomorrow would be the ultimate test, a day spent hooning around in Wales. I had put a route of sorts into MRA which took me to Newtown and down to Crossgates and thence to the Elan Valley for a blat around the dams before heading back to Crossgates for tea and medals. That would have given me a good three hours with the helmet on if all went well.

I was really pleased when Richard offered to ride over and babysit me and so, all togged up cos the unforecasted rain was spitting and splashing, I rode out to Worcester to meet up. We set off for Leominster and Knighton with Richard in the lead and all was well despite not really knowing how any of the foreign-to-me controls on the Neotec actually worked; such as a lock for the visor which needs a button push to release it...

We swapped over in Leominster and I led out to Knighton before taking the wonderful B4355 Teme Valley road up to Newtown, shadowing the Wales / England border and ignoring the ever increasing signs that insisted the road was closed and there was no entry to Dolfor. There was and so we headed south on the fabulously winding A483 into Crossgates where we decided to stop for tea and brunch and where we were the only bikers present, at least for the first 15 minutes.

I had been wearing the Shoei, which I was hating less as the miles went by, for over 3 hours by then and there was still absolutely no sign of the double vision returning and for the first time in two years I was feeling ever more confident in the hope that it might just have been cured. I do love that winding road but we were both glad to stop at Crossgates.

Fed, watered and refreshed we decided to head back into England rather than pushing on to the Elan Valley as I had declared the helmet test to be a success and so we enjoyed the fast but occasionally over-policed A44 back to Leominster before going our separate ways.

What a relief. No more double vision. No more threepenny-bitting bends trying to decide which was the real road and no more discomfort in the head department after a half day in the saddle, not that I noticed it too much in the C5 in the early days but began to more recently.

And so, having consigned an 800 mile old C5 to the scrap bin of history along with its integral SC2 intercomm system, I now just need to ride back to Motolegends to get them to supply and fit the Sena SRL-03 integrated system into the Neotec. What's yet another £300 compared to giving up riding.

I will still be heading off to see the eye doc because this came out of nowhere with nothing having changed since the previous day and we may still need to get to the bottom that; my optician helpfully said it could be a brain tumour. More anon.

Oh, and if you know anyone in the market for a nearly new Schuberth C5 and /or an SC2, you know who to call.

Offline raesewell

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2024, 08:52:59 am »
Glad you got it sorted Brian, put the helmet in the for sale section, not many people would have got to the end of that post  ;D

Offline sudolea

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2024, 09:20:12 am »
Well Brian, upon reading this, my first thaught was (I'm NOT joking !) : did you consult an ear doctor (hopefully correctly translated by Google Translate) ?

The hearing organ, i.e. our ears with everything inside of them, is the (IT terminology now) "input" to our brain, for equilibrium. Getting older, and deafer, degrades that "input" and disturbs it.

If it's sorted out for good, then all OK. But IF it would ever return (I sincerely hope for you it doesn't), going to the ear doctor would be my first next step in your case ...
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Offline black-k1

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2024, 09:36:24 am »
I'm glad to hear that it has been sorted. Definitely still worth getting checked out though as there may be some other underlying issue.
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Offline Matt

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2024, 10:34:39 am »
This is such a relief! But you forgot the biggest news in all this: we now get to test yet another intercom pairing weird background noises thing :D.

I'll start planning 2025 shortly.
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Offline Phmode

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2024, 12:27:35 pm »
Hi Phillipe,

I spoke to my optician about this because wearing moulded in-ear monitors can have weird side effects. As she said, if I were suffering any other symptoms such as headaches, dizziness or balance problems then that would be a next step.

Hi David,

I am definitely still keeping my appointment at the hospital mainly because this problem just came out of the blue. Nothing (anyone can think of) changed from one ride to the next and I'm sure the specialists in the eye department will be the first to suggest other possible root causes.

Speaking of in-ear monitors, I'm not sure it is even possible with the Sena for the Neotec 3 as part of the internal wiring loom shares the boom mic wire and the right speaker wire whereas in the C5 these are in separate looms. C'est La vie.

Offline alaskier

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2024, 10:30:56 pm »
Glad to hear you have finally resolved your issue  Brian and hope you have many more happy years in the saddle. I have used Motolegends a couple of times myself and although they are not the cheapest they are second to none on service.

Offline Phmode

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2024, 09:04:44 am »
Yes. I am not normally given to touchy-feely emotion but this has been quite stressful and their genuine concern had my bottom lip trembling at times.

As for cost, although they are not a discounter, they do have a price-match, or rather price-beat guarantee where they will beat any UK discounted price on like-for-like items by 10% even after purchase for 14days. And they claim this applies even to internet sellers deals. I was a bit miffed because C5 sellers were at war on the day with prices down to £408. Of course, there were no deals on the Neotec and I think there might be restrictions on Motolegends price-beat deal if you buy through the PFS scheme. Can't remember.

Offline flatfour

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2024, 09:42:41 am »
This might be of no help at all, however there is a chance that it could be, so let me tell you of a similar situation that an acquaintance of mine suffered around 18 months ago.

Some four years ago, I decided to take up building flying model aircraft again, after a break of some 40 years. I joined the local club and learned to fly them reasonably well once more and now spend a fair amount of time there.

Just after the worst of the COVID restrictions were lifted and our flying field opened again, one of the "regulars" who was approaching 80 years of age started to lose control of his models when they were in an almost overhead position - he said that he was having vision problems and when he looked up, was suffering from double vision. This did not affect him at other times, when he was looking forward.

He went to see the GP, who to his surprise said that it was probably not the bad news that he suspected, however a scan was need to confirm his thoughts. This was duly carried out and upon revisiting the GP, my acquaintance was told that occasionally with people of his age, the main blood vessels from the body to the head would lose elasticity in the neck area and when looking up, would narrow to the point that blood flow was restricted. Whilst he wasn't offered a cure (except to change hobby - I believe he sails boats now) he still drives and, so far as I know, has not had problems since.

Is it possible that with the "head down, look up" position that is necessary on some of our bikes, the same might be happening to you, particularly if this is the only time it happens 

Offline Phmode

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2024, 04:55:59 pm »
Hi Colin. Sorry I missed your post last month. Some of the tests my optician did involved head movement and also eye movement with a stationary head in various, canted positions so she seemed to have ruled that out in her opinion. Also, this also used to happen on my Honda CRF250 Rally with bar risers which is just about the most upright riding position I have been in, almost leaning back at times.

However, many thanks for the suggestion and read my next post for latest diagnosis. Brian

Offline flatfour

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2024, 05:32:41 pm »
Brian, no problem with missing post, I assume that it's something that you don't want to dwell on too much anyway, until you have a diagnosis.

If you do have license complications, I have a very good doctor friend (now retired) who was head of medicine for one of the government agencies for many years, and has offered advice to other users of the Forum that has helped (FOC, of course).

Offline Phmode

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2024, 05:37:55 pm »
So, today was the day I had to report to the eye specialists at the local hospital to see what they could see, hopefully in spectacular single vision.

To say I was a little apprehensive would have been an understatement as possible causes range from heart problems (circulation issues etc. as Colin related in his earlier post) through to brain issues (neurological causes). Obviously, my optician having told the hospital I was having double vision whilst riding my motorcycle, I went on my motorcycle; free parking see!

I got there about 10 minutes early despite the Covid-era warnings on the appointment letter about not arriving early and joined a waiting room full of other eye sufferers, all of whom gave me really disdainful looks when I was called as the next patient.

The rather lovely Emily introduced herself and had a ready answer when I asked what the hell an Orthoptist, the title on her name badge, was. Well, who knew that there were actually NHS specialists in double vision, specifically a specialist in the muscles and nerves surrounding and controlling eye movement.

I went through the whole sorry saga and she was taking copious notes right up to the point where I told her about the new Shoei helmet having fixed the problem and the reason that Motolegends switched me from the Schuberth which they claimed was sitting too low on my brow ridge. Her whole face lit up and she went on to tell me that, despite the fact that she would never have made that connection, it is the nerves and muscles above the eyes that actually control the movement and co-ordination of the eyes in a vertical dimension and hence cause or prevent exactly the double vision I had been suffering with.

She went on to do many and varied tests, most merely replicating and expanding on the ones my optician had done, before giving her diagnosis, which was exactly the same as the guys at Motolegends; pressure just above the brow ridge.

Her tests and the correlation of the variations in the results would clearly have shown if I had heart or brain problems and she was quick to reassure me that I had neither and after many, many contortions, she also ruled out neck and circulation problems.

She declared my eye control to be excellent compared to the population at large and could only offer eye fatigue as a possible initial cause of the problems. She has given me some eye exercises to get on with in the meantime and also suggested that the amount of time I am spending on the iPad as opposed to watching t.v. might be a contributory factor as my eyes are not getting the longer focus they used to and although nothing to do with old age specifically, being retired and somewhat sedentary certainly doesn't help.

Alarmingly, there was a huge uptick in the number of children presenting with eye problems, especially double vision, after Covid because they had spent such a long time focussing no further than their iPad or text book and not looking into the mid-distance at a blackboard or getting outdoor exercise. These problems have now been hard-wired into these children who will need to have their vision corrected for the rest of their lives. Even more scary is the huge number of children in China who have similar problems because they do nothing but study, study and even more study.

She was interested in the difference between the helmets and we have made another appointment for 6 weeks time where I will turn up in the Schuberth (with the Shoei strapped to the carrier) to see if she can determine any difference in the effects.

So, the best the NHS has to offer (and they really were superb) came to the same conclusion as the helmet fitters at Motolegends (and so were they) and all for free.

Offline richtea

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2024, 05:52:10 pm »
Alarmingly, there was a huge uptick in the number of children presenting with eye problems, especially double vision, after Covid because they had spent such a long time focussing no further than their iPad or text book and not looking into the mid-distance at a blackboard or getting outdoor exercise. These problems have now been hard-wired into these children who will need to have their vision corrected for the rest of their lives.

I was constantly looking into the mid-distance at school. Hence why I always missed the flight of the oncoming blackboard rubber* to the temple for not concentrating.

Glad to hear you're sorted Brian. Let's go for a ride!

*chalk eraser in mordern parlance. Yeah, whatevs.

Offline Phmode

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2024, 08:37:21 pm »
I think you'll find it is a dry wipe eraser...

Where to? Wales?

Offline Matt

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Re: Double double vision vision.
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2024, 09:50:31 pm »
Given gesture recognition tech it's probably gone full circle and is a fist again now!

French regards,

Matt
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