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Offline Sutty

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Question
« on: May 12, 2018, 05:18:52 pm »
Hello guys, has anybody removed the crud catcher from the centre of the radiator to assist cooling ?

Best reads   Mick

Offline Phmode

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Re: Question
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2018, 05:57:15 pm »
When you see how much crud would end up in the radiator, not a chance in my case.

And remember, it isn't just crud it catches, it's the stones too  :o

Offline raesewell

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Re: Question
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2018, 06:29:52 pm »
If you need to assist cooling it's time for a radiator clean and eventually replacement.

Offline Sutty

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Re: Question
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2018, 08:09:06 pm »
Cheers guys, the bike hasn't done 10K  yet and it looks like it was all done in fine weather, I stripped it down on Thursday there's no sign of corrosion and there was only a small amount of crud on the bottom corners, the centre at the top above the mud catcher was thick with fly debris. I flushed it  through from the back and it was as clear as a bell. I took it for a 50 mile ride on Friday and on the open road it runs at 3 bars four in traffic the fan works ok but seems to stay on longer than I think it should, it does cool it down and cut out.
I love the bike, I would have thought the Germans would have come up with a more efficient cooling system. I've had Blades for 20 years before this bike and not once did i have concerns about cooling, they had short front guards and much the same shape rads.
It seems as they have restricted the airflow in a couple of places and i was thinking of removing the mud catcher and putting vents in the fan mount bracket plus fitting an extender to the front mudguard.  I am a retired engineer with plenty of time on my hands, and bike cleaning is like therapy to me.
All thoughts are welcome and thoroughly considered.

Best regards    Mick

Offline raesewell

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Re: Question
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2018, 08:11:46 pm »
From your description it all seems to be working OK.

Offline Sutty

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Re: Question
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2018, 09:29:06 am »
Thanks guys, It's not so much the moving temp that concerned me but stopped traffic.  We're off to LeMans next week and you can be stuck in the queue to get out of the secure bike park for up to an hour and then it's really slow to the ring road. Plus, the bike is a bit too heavy for the missus to push.


     Best regards    Mick

Offline richtea

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Re: Question
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2018, 02:05:59 pm »
TLDR: test your fan!

My fan was kicking in at Mallory in the traffic (not quite the same duration as a Le Mans bike jam, I know), so that's what you probably want to check is does your fan work?
If so, it should cool sufficiently to knock it down a notch. In the case of sitting in stationary traffic at 26-28C it was notch 5 = fan on, and then it got knocked down to 4.
Then having set off into the 40-70mph out of town area, it dropped to 3 or 4 (depending on ambient temp and radiator cleaniness). That's how mine berhaved, anyway.

Offline Sutty

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Re: Question
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2018, 02:34:00 pm »
Cheers for that richtea, like I said on the open road, no problem but in town traffic it seemed the fan was on for a long time. I've bit the bullet now anyway and removed the guard. Just been out for a ride and it was at 3 bars the whole way, I left it ticking over over gauge went up 2 bars, fan cut in down a bar then cut out in reasonable time.
I'm going to monitor it on the French trip and I'll let you know how it goes.

Best regards.   Mick

Offline Phmode

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Re: Question
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2018, 06:50:44 pm »
Cheers guys, the bike hasn't done 10K  yet and it looks like it was all done in fine weather, I stripped it down on Thursday there's no sign of corrosion and there was only a small amount of crud on the bottom corners, the centre at the top above the mud catcher was thick with fly debris. I flushed it  through from the back and it was as clear as a bell. I took it for a 50 mile ride on Friday and on the open road it runs at 3 bars four in traffic the fan works ok but seems to stay on longer than I think it should, it does cool it down and cut out.
I love the bike, I would have thought the Germans would have come up with a more efficient cooling system. I've had Blades for 20 years before this bike and not once did i have concerns about cooling, they had short front guards and much the same shape rads.
It seems as they have restricted the airflow in a couple of places and i was thinking of removing the mud catcher and putting vents in the fan mount bracket plus fitting an extender to the front mudguard.  I am a retired engineer with plenty of time on my hands, and bike cleaning is like therapy to me.
All thoughts are welcome and thoroughly considered.

Best regards    Mick

I will only say this one more time; the front tyre also throws stones up. The crud catcher saves the radiator from holing. As an engineer you know it to be true.

Unless it is really overheating forget about where the guage is.

It is worth making sure that the system has been properly vacuum filled; air locks in the top of the head will not help cooling and will crack the head.

Offline Sutty

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Re: Question
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2018, 09:27:12 pm »
Thanks for that phmode, I do realise that radiators are susceptible too stone damage but I think there is a quite adequate honeycomb stone guard on there anyway.
I am not a born again biker, I have ridden bikes since I was 16. My last sports bike before the K was a 170 Bhp (at the wheel) 2007 Fireblade, the front guard was shorter and no guard on the rad. I ran it on Pirelli Diablo corsa rosso tyres that were good and sticky.we did well over 30k miles on that bike and never had an issue with the cooling system.
I was an engineer for 50 years and I understand that sticking a 100mm plank in front of the rad would reduce its efficiency. It seems as though quite a few guys have had issues with the cooling system and some have even said they have to pull over till the bike cools, and that's with the stone guard on.
I'm pretty fortunate now in being able to ride when the weathers fine, I also think that's the problem with the bottom corners on the rad, with the fan mount blocking the rad there's no airflow ,the dust builds and Blocks the core then rots it, I might even fabricate a new fan mount and try that.

Best regards.    Mick

Offline richtea

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Re: Question
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2018, 07:31:32 am »
It's a good point, Mick.

If you think your radiator is on its knees, then removing the stone guard may well extend it's life a year or two - albeit at increased risk of stone damage.

My only suggestion is that it might be worth fitting a fender extender, as a compromise position on protection. Sub-£20 here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-K1300S-Carbon-fiber-fender-extender-ALL-YEARS/142787665391?hash=item213eceddef:g:K0IAAOSwTuJYqiAQ

How about you remove it - take a 'before' photo, ride it for x months/years, and then take a 'after' photo?
It would be a very useful test for the whole forum.  8)

Offline Sutty

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Re: Question
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2018, 09:39:25 am »
Richtea, the rad is in really good condition, as is the whole bike. the centre stand looks like an aftermarket job with cheap paint work so that will be coming off to be epoxy coated.
I will take some pix and monitor the efficiency of the cooling in heavy traffic. I'm looking for a fan mount on ebay and I am going to fab one up Spider like to release the extra radiator area that is now blocked by the original mount.

Best regards   Mick

Offline richtea

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Re: Question
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2018, 10:17:06 am »
I'm pretty sure the fan mount is closed/solid in order to force a larger radiator area to be cooled when the fan comes on.
If you make a more open design, only the fins directly in front of the fan will be getting decent airflow at a standstill (=worst case). The rest of the radiator will have to rely on convection airflow, not fan-assisted.

On the other hand, when you remove the stone guard, you're releasing a decent chunk of 'direct' fan area.
It's probably worth comparing the two areas, i.e.:
- the area covered by the existing fan mount, minus the area lost to the stone guard
versus
- the area covered by fan on its own (I'm assuming your spider design will take very little area away)

Looking forward to the pics...

Offline Sutty

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Re: Question
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2018, 10:52:05 am »
That's a good point Richtea, I never thought of that.  I will see how we fare over the week end, last year we were queued up for over an hour to get out of the bike park...

   Best regards    Mick

Offline Sutty

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Re: Question
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 06:44:32 pm »
Well were back from France with no probs, bike behaved perfectly. The temp was spot on, 3 bars on the open road at virtually any speed,from walking pace up. The queue to get out of the circuit and through the town to the ring road was the biggest we've seen. The cooling was spot on ! up to 5 bars, fan on, then down to 4 , fan off it was a really warm day as well, the fan wasn't running as long as it did about a month ago when we were coming home through Hereford town centre one Saturday afternoon, it ran nearly all the time then. That's what led me to be concerned.
I have ordered a mudguard extender though.

Best regards    Mick